Denver Nuggets Blog – Roundball Mining Company » Woj: “Nuggets unlikely to make deal”

Erlingur

This is only slightly OT, but anyway. In regards to the “Denver Nuggets as contenders” debate, I just assembled the West’s Top 8 teams’ record, counting only the games they’ve played against each other, and that turns up a very interesting picture:

Team – GP – W/L – %
Denver – 19 – 13/6 – .684
Oklahoma – 15 – 10/5 – .667
LA Clippers – 17 – 11/6 – .647
San Antonio – 15 – 9/6 – .600
Memphis – 16 – 9/7 – .563
Golden State – 18 – 6/12 – .333
Houston – 17 – 5/12 – .294
Utah – 16 – 4/12 – .250

According to this, the Nuggets regularly show up against their rivals, holding the best record in games within the top 8 West teams, although the difference between the top 5 teams isn’t that big. Their standing can mostly be chalked up to losses against East teams, and middling ones at that. I know this has no value when playoff basketball starts, but I just wanted to put this up here.

In regards to trades, I don’t want to see the team’s core broken up, but am open to trading fringe players, like Mozzy or Chandler, especially if we get a shooter or a good defender (heck, I’ll settle for a free throw coach) in return.

mike

ummm they are 3-0 against Houston
they are 2-1 against Utah
they are 3-1 against Golden State

They are unlikely to play any of those teams in round one (or at all) in the playoffs. That means 5-4 against the top 4. which is fine, but nothing great. Memphis they are 2-1 with a close loss on the back end of back to back… which is a good sign…

EWilson

I think it’s smart of Ujiri to play it close to the vest right now. Let other, more ‘desperate’ teams drive the market and only jump in if you get a deal you can’t pass up. After all, what you want is for other teams to overvalue your assets.

Mark B

There is one reason that should throw Ujiri over the top for as why the Nuggets need to make a trade. While George Karl loves talking up his teams depth, you can count on one hand the number of times when George has had to go to Timofey Mozgov. At the same time you need more than all of your fingers and toes to count the number of times that George has brought in Hamilton, Fournier, or Randolph. Karl talks about his super deep team but he isn’t coaching it. George plays 4 guys off the bench more minutes than any other coach does 4 off theirs but he still plays guys like Iguodala, Lawson, and Faried more minutes than should a guy running a 10 or 11 deep team. Javale McGee doesn’t get enough minutes nor does Danilo Gallinari as good as he’s played lately. This team is in desperate need of consistent perimeter shooting and a boost at the free throw line. And, as the media has reported often as of late, several Nuggets have spoken out about their concerns over their lack of playing time. A great, deep, NBA team should have, as the Nuggets do, 6 players in double digit buckets and solid numbers across the board. But that team does not need talent wasting away on the bench. The Nuggets should trade away at least 3 players for 1 more starter quality player. They will have to if they want to compete with the top 3 in the west. They don’t need a star. They need consolidation. I say trade away the players that hurt the Nuggets because of Karl’s love for them. Miller, Hamilton and Koufos for JJ Redick or Kyle Korver or Jose Calderon or a Guard in that talent tier.

mike

koufus is not an acceptable player to lose unless you are getting back a big who is better. He is actually probably as valuable or more than either faried or Mcgee when you take into account the poor defense the other two play. And makes very little money for 3 years.
theo

Agree with one sentence. ‘This team is in desperate need of consistent perimeter shooting and a boost at the free throw line.’

Even more to the point. In a system predicated on leading the league in free throw attempts produced by attacking the hoop in transition and in the half court without conscience, no way it can work if we’re one of the worst free throw shooting teams in the league.

The Nugs are #2 in free throw attempts–just like the system would predict–but last in free throw shooting percentage. Let me repeat, we’re the worst free throw shooting team in the league by a wide margin. No defense, nobody contesting your shot. Let me repeat, we can’t make the most wide open, fundamental shots in the game. Every team–let me repeat–every team in the league shoots free throws better than we do.

If we were shooting .750 from the free throw line for the season we’re contending. We’d have at least 5 more wins this year.

Thoughts?
- googergieger
  
  You’re not saying anything new really. We have three people on this team you don’t shut your eyes to, when they are at the free throw line. Rest are bad. Outside of them practicing not much you can do. Faried is getting better. McGee is getting better. Iggy seems to be getting worse. Brewer same. Doesn’t help that the last three games we had we attacked more than double the times and still got less free throw attempts. Really making them is an issue, but getting the other team in foul trouble helps too. It is an issue, but hundred before sleep, hundred before you leave the house, and focus on the other issues that have cost this team wins and the third seed.
  - theo
    
    What?
    
    You and others spend all your time bashing Karl but won’t admit we don’t have the most basic talent to contend. His system requires a team that can shoot free throws. We’re the worst free throw shooting team in the league by far. That has nothing to do with Karl, or his system. We just have pathetic free throw shooters that can’t make an unguarded shot from 15 feet because they played in a ridiculous AAU system and NCAA one and done approach that puts players in the NBA that have no business being there.
    - googergieger
      
      We talk about it plenty. Since the start of the season actually. However there are other factors besides poor free throw shooting that lead to losses. I mean a lot of games we’ve lost we’ve had good to sizeable leads in, only to see them get pissed away.
      
      Also you keep having make believe conversations in an effort to have an argument where there is none. Nobody has ever seriously said this Denver team can compete for a championship or that it is finals or bust for this team. So either stop with this make believe conversation or go have it with yourself. Because the trolling is getting boring.
    - dynamo.joe
      
      Name the players you are describing that went 1 and done. Quincy Miller? Anthony Randolph? You are right, these guys have been pulling down our free throw % all year.
      
      The only player who fits your description even remotely is Kosta Koufos, who did play only 1 year of college ball, and is a lousy free throw shooter. But he averages 1 free throw a game, so I don’t think you can attribute our free throw shooting woes to him either.
      
      The guy who gets fouled regularly and shoots badly is Kenneth Faried, who, of course, played all four years of college ball.
      
      Once again, your contentions have absolutely no basis in reality.

http://espn herpderpnuggets

I would hope that the nuggets try and clear up some of their assets this offseason, if not before the deadline.

googergieger

Still think we’re going to make a move. Not a huge one, but something substantial enough. Someone that will crack the rotation. I don’t hate Miller but the comments, the lack of effort on D, the sometimes selfish play on offense, not to mention just how much Karl uses him regardless of what he is doing out on the court. A bit of the same with Brewer, who always shows up ready to play his heart out, but the gambling for steals, the hot and really cold shooting, and Karl’s willingness to play him no matter what. Wouldn’t mind trying to get Watson and Evans from the Nets. Good back up guard that doesn’t care about minutes, and Evans who’d be a great team mate and mentor for our bigs. Dudley I think could do what Brewer does a bit more consistently. But who knows. Maybe after the trade deadline passes everyone on Denver will step up including Karl.

Ha. No.

ny nugs fan

hope the nugs sit tight; don’t do anything

this team as constructed can go all the way anybody who says otherwise is just enamored with the whole idea of *trades*

they could screw up what should be a run at wc finals and hopefully finals by making some silly trade and disrupting chemistry at this point

unless you’re talking about d-wade, lebron or durant i can’t see another trade out there worth it

Guy

There not going anywhere winning only 30% of their road games which is where they’ll be playing for most of the playoffs after the first round. If they get out of the first round they’ll probably have to win 2 road games whomever they play in the 2nd round. That being said they shouldn’t make a deal just to make a deal.

Mark from Charlotte

The Nuggets should keep Jham on the roster.

JetLife82

If we could somehow trade Fournier and Mozzy to the Spurs for Danny Green I’d be all for it!

http://espn herpderpnuggets

i just dont think that clears up enough space for playing time, and we can see that fournier is capable of knocking down 3′s no problem…bad trade in my opinion.
- JetLife82
  
  Danny Green is a perfect fit off the bench for the Nuggets IMO. He’s long, reasonably athletic, can knock down the 3 and most importantly fits in with the defensive switching gameplan as he can guard multiple positions. That way Brewer and Andre Miller can play less minutes and we are deeper in terms of players who actually see the floor.
  
  San Antonio tends to love Euro players, hence why I named Fours and Mozzy as trade chips.
  - googergieger
    
    Yup. Cause the reason Karl plays Brewer and Miller big minutes regardless of production is because Karl doesn’t have any other options.
    - JetLife82
      
      Brewer and miller are the two most consistent players off the bench so I would be giving them minutes over guys like Chandler, McGee, Randolph etc. too.
      With Green on the roster I reckon Karl would use him a lot more than he uses Fours and Mozzy. As I said before, his defense is good, he’s versatile, can space the floor and he’s young. Similar to Chandler but more of a guard.
      We need to consolidate assets while still trading for guys who fit within the concept and dynamics of the team. For all the talk of the Nuggets being a deep team, they are ok, but not championship deep.
      This is what the rotation would look like:
      
      PG – Ty Lawson / Andre Miller / Julyan Stone
      SG – Andre Iguodala / Corey Brewer / Jordan Hamilton
      SF – Danilo Gallinari / Danny Green / Quincy Miller
      PF – Kenneth Faried / Wilson Chandler
      C – Kosta Koufos / JaVale McGee / Anthony Randolph
      - googergieger
        
        Well no. They aren’t. I’d say Chandler is probably the most consistent guy off the bench. Just because his sound defense is always going to be there regardless of anything else. Where as Miller and Brewer can get hot and cold on offense, and defensively one won’t try and the other will gamble. A lot. Anyways I don’t dislike Green. Great player. Knows his role. Doesn’t seem to care about minutes. Seems professional. Still think Karl is going to play Miller and Ty a lot of minutes together. Still think he is going to play Brewer about twenty minutes a game at least. Chandler is going to get close to twenty as well. Iggy and Gallo are going to be high thirties. Don’t see Green getting much time here. Not unless we get rid of Brewer and Chandler as well. I.E. the guys that actually crack the team’s rotation.
        
        CJP32
        
        Chandler is the most consistent injured guy off the bench. For every 1 good game he has, its followed by DNPs and 4 average games. I don’t think he will ever be 100% healthy again, the injury he had takes a long time to heal.
        
        At least with Brewer you know you will get 10-12 pts, 3 rebs, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 three pointer and 110% energy every single game. Yeah he gambles, but Chandler takes contested fade away jumpers that usually don’t go in and clearly struggles to run up and down the court.
        
        googergieger
        
        No. I agree on offense Chandler doesn’t make the wisest decisions, and he isn’t at one hundred percent yet. However I say Chandler is the most consistent because you know what you are going to get out of the guy every game. Which is, hot and cold offense, but really good solid defense. Where as the most consistent thing about Brewer is his energy. Again I love Brewer and what he brings to the team from an energy and attitude perspective. But yeah, at least Chandler is going to defend his guy and help only when it’s the smart decision to.
        
        JetLife82
        
        I agree with CJP32, although I do like WC and I’m not denying he contributes a lot to the team, I feel that Miller and Brewer have been big factors in a lot of our wins this season, coming through when someone needed to step up. Plus they actually play more than a handful of games (I hope Wilson can stay healthy).
        
        Anyway, irrespective of who’s better off the bench, I was just proposing a trade that I thought would truly make the team deeper and better equipped to contend this year or next. Also I just realized Danny Green and Ty Lawson were college teammates at UNC when they won the title. So somehow that makes this idea even better
      - mike
        
        just to be CLEAR there is almost zero chance the nuggets are ending up with Danny Green. The guy is the perfect fit for the spurs with his shooting and defense and ability to play both wing positions. Obviously if they ended up with an all-star they would part with him, but that is unlikely and so Green is unlikely to leave. If you wanted him the nugs should have found a way to rid themselves of Chandler and offered him the midlevel in the offseason (he was probably restricted, but spurs might have thought twice).

Dylan Palm-Trujillo

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=a43wqnp

Ryan

Save your trade before you post the link.

K.Allen

E I have been a Nuggets fan since they were playing in the Denver Auditorium, BEFORE MCNICHOLS ARENA. Therefore, I think I can say that this team, will never win a Championship. But that is not the heartbreak. The heartbreak is, they are close.

There are two trades they could make that would instantly legitimize this roster, yet are ones they will never make:

TRADE: T. Lawson
W. Chandler
Q. Miller
J. Hamilton

TO: SACREMENTO

DENVER RECEIVES: TYREKE EVANS
JIMMER FREDETTE
AARON BROOKS

MY TAKE ON WHY THIS TRADE WORKS: Ty Lawson is, to me Allen Iverson without the amazing scoring ability. He is short, fast, and has great ability to use h to get to the rim. However, he is a shoot first PG who makes no one better, on a team that needs it, IN THE STARTING LINEUP. Plus, he is a below average defensive player, he’s 5’11, and apparently is the go to player clutch situations. But unlike A.I, HE IS NOT CLUTCH..YET. BUT EVANS IS. And he can team with Iguodala to make a 1-2 scoring backcourt that could average 45/15/15, and matchup against Westbrook and Durant better as a unit with Faired, Gallo, and K.K/McGee.

But hey, that’s me..

Scott

No. Just no.
Ryan

This is an awful trade. All it does is ruin chemistry, bring in a player that has no 3pt shot, and two guys that would ride the bench in favor of Andre miller. Thats Evans, Miller, Stone, Brooks, Fredette at PG…

A better trade IMO would be Evans and Chuck Hayes for Wilson Chandler, Andre Miller, and Brewer/Moz plus picks.

Evans is a perfect sixth man, especially for this team, with his ability to run the point/play off ball, switch constantly on defense, and run in transition. Chuck Hayes is that munched needed post defender we desire.

Lawson/Evans/Stone
Iggy/Fournier
Gallo/Jham
Faried/Hayes
Koufus/McGee

That’s a lineup right there, with our two rookies still on the team and possibly getting reserve minutes. Plus the core is held intact.
- Will the NC Nugget
  
  Thank you finally a trade I can agree w …Evans would for well n could work as the 6th man
- Tom
  
  I don’t think Sacto would go for this trade, even though it probably favors them. Denver might not go for it either, as Evans is decent but not great and Hayes is an under-sized big with very limited skills. If the Nuggets are going to make a trade, they need to get someone who has a chance to crack the starting lineup, and Evans isn’t it.

toby

Well nuggies fans, we have to face the cold truth. Our entire center lineup ranks 25th in def rebounding and our pick & roll/pop rotation defense fails to close out shooters. While faried, iggy, and Danilo get their fair share of boards, still, 25th is just ridiculous. As great as Kostas low post d without fouling is, he fails to put his body on opposing centers/forwards who crash the glass. We need per defense, both p&r n on ball. Here’s my ideas, feel free to comment.

Idea 1: Marcin Gortat (low post scoring is what we need, solid rim protector, athletic can get out n run, great def reb, awesome p&r finisher w a jumper from midrange) + shannon brown (great defender, athletic, fast, good hands, alley oop receiver/giver game is awesome, stretches the floor) + Sebastian Telfair (no Andre miller, but is a good ball handling decision maker who takes care of the ball and has a jumper the d should respect) for W Chandler, mozzy, and miller

Idea 2: nikola vujevic (stretches the D w his outside shot, good shot blocker, DOMINANT rebounder on both sides, and he will isolate minimal in the paint on the offensive glass w him being a stretch 5) + jj redick (willing passer who shoots 3s at a hi clip, and free throw shooting is flawless. Win win for the nuggs we need help in these areas) + 1st rnd pick for W Chandler n mozzy..

I love Wilson but let’s be honest people, he’s too talented to just receive 15-23 mins a night.. we could use him for an upgrade at center…. With his departure, j ham and Randolph can get in more… We suck at 3 pt shooting, yet, Karl never let’s j ham in… He’s a gunslinger with a pretty shooting form.. decent rebounder too, he just needs to stop forcing turnovers and learn how to fight through screens and close out shooters

Thoughts?

toby

Excuse me again, isolate manimal in the paint on the off glass… Jesus I hate auto correct I’m responding via phone smh

toby

Guys we don’t need a superstar we just need easy hi % buckets from pur bogs when our backs are against the wall on the 4th quarter.. history shows having a big man who can get you easy buckets mean more than the world when it comes to pursuing a title…

toby

Excuse me, hi % buckets from our bigs when our backs are against the wall

Tom

The two obvious places the Nuggets can upgrade in the starting lineup is PF and C. I know everyone is on Faried’s nuts right now, but he is not a good defender, is very limited offensively, and doesn’t rebound as well as one would like on defense. In time, he might become the most important player on this team, but at the moment, he’s the weakest link in the starting lineup, and the team would be better if he were coming off the bench.

Koufos has been pretty solid all year, but he’s not more important than Lawson, Gallinari, or Iguodalla. It’s pretty tough to upgrade the 5, though, so the Nuggets are probably stuck with him for the year.

In other words, trade for a guy who can start over Faried, like Aldridge, ZBo, or Pau. There are several good PFs out there who are available for the right price, and the Nuggets have the goods to go get one of them.

toby

Dude I can’t believe u said that Kenneth is the weakest link in our lineup.. if it wasn’t for his hustling on the boards, im not sure what seed we would be placed now… Do yourself a favor, if u are indeed a nuggets fan and watch games supposedly, and check his efficiency (plus/minus) in all of his boxscores… He gives life to this team.. he’s a top 10 perimeter defending of, great help.defender, and I do agree with you on one aspect. His one on one post d needs more work but that’s because he’s a little underweight for his height,.however that’s what enables him to be an athletic freak that he is.. we need to upgrade our starting center, until Javale develops (which will roughly be about 2 years before making his solidified starting position every night)… I’m sorry, but Kosta Kofous isn’t a great defensive rebounder, and his low post finishing usually comes by offensive rebounds, not via back to basket or pick & roll… If you honestly think Kosta gives us a great chance at going to the finals you are blatantly a fool
Tom

Faried has the 6th best plus/minus on the team, just behind the maligned Andre Miller. Yeah, Faried is the weakest starter by several important metrics, the most important of which is defense. Maybe if he were a great offensive player, his lack of defense wouldn’t matter as much, but he’s really only great at offensive rebounding and playing with energy. Those skills are great off the bench, but we should hold starters to higher standards. I don’t think Koufos is better than Faried, but the Nuggets won’t be able to find a better option this year at the 5. There are plenty of established players better than Faried, though, that can help the Nuggets at the 4. He should be coming off the bench, end of story.
- toby
  
  U have made some interesting points… Well maybe we should institute Anthony Randolph more and hopefully find some sort of upgrade for a legit starting center…

GIANLUCA

go … TRADE BREWER or W.CHANDLER …
or all 2 … trade for JJ REDICK !

http://Denverstiffs.com slader

Che bello: gianluca è ragionevole oggi. I agree we need Redick, but Brewer and Mosgov might be more attractive to Orlando (+ pick?).
That would leave Chandler et al available to package for a serious 4.

Josh

Chandler, McGee, and Miller for Amare Stoudimire

Ty
Iggy
Gallo
Faried
Amare

JoelK

Amare? I’m not sure why we do that. Are we trying to reassemble the 2011 Knicks?
Tom

Amare has one of the worst contracts in the league. The Nuggets wouldn’t even trade a bag of chips for him. He’s still a decent player, but there are only a handful of big-market teams that can afford that contract.

heykyleinsf

Can’t wait for this to be over so fans and columnists can quit being Judases. Look.. I have my favorites, and players that are much less so… but when does the loyalty of a fan ever be called in to question? When is it ever about the team?

Basketball is unique in the way the trade deadline is set up. I think it’s an ugly part of the business.. I see it as necessary.. but I also believe.. once the season starts, everyone is set for the year. This trade deadline is a disgusting distraction to me.

I will be happy to see the team stay the team.

Z

Please Trade Chandler he means nothing to this team.

Logan

How are you that stupid? Chandler means so much for the team. How about he is the best scorer of the bench, and probably the best defender off the bench for the team!

http://yahoo.com prospector

Again lets make this simple:

The reason we want Miller and Chandler to go is due to their attitudes, salary, and Karl’s use of them.

Both players want more minutes.. They need less so we can develop JHAM, STONE, EVAN, and possibly Randolph. What is use of having good young players if KARL refuses to use them.. He keeps talking about defense when our defense sucks… At JHAM and STONE both rebound… And all these players I mentioned ARE CHEAP… They all have UPSIDE… So lets review, you guy old expensive guys to develop cheap young talent with upside potential.. WIN WIN WIN.. Also you allow this team to become TY’s TEAM.. No more deferring to MILLER… When your coach is a subborn idiot incapable of change you must trade his security blankets to force his hand.. Thank god we dumped NENE or Faried would still be on the bench…. Any one figure why we are a great team now on the boards??? FARIED FARIED FARIED… FREE JHAM!!!!!!!!!! FREE STONE!!!!!!!!!

Tom

The Nuggets would be significantly better with Nene starting at the 4 and Faried coming off the bench. Nene is really solid at everything: defense, pick ‘n role, mid-range jumpers, posting-up, passing, running the break, great hands, great footwork, smart player. Faried is only better at offensive rebounding and dunking. Big whoop. I’m not even sure Faried will reach Nene’s ceiling. Faried is easily the most overrated player on the Nuggets, followed by McGee.

http://yahoo.com prospector

I AM SOFA KING WE TART ED..

Sorry for the typo’s in the above posting.
corrections:
At least JHAM and Stone both rebound.

So let’s review, you get rid of old expensive guys to develop cheap young talent with upside potential.. WIN WIN WIN..

Sorry for the errors!!

dave

in order for us to be any kind of threat we need another player. we need a strong outside presence. we score a lot of points in the paint and our fast break points do us well obviously but we are lacking a key 3 pt shooter. we need someone who can go lights out. i like reddick, but i really like korver. we need a perimeter defender and shooter. we could offer up moz, miller and chandler to get him.

J Good

Denver Nuggets only need to trade Timofey Mozgov and see what you can get for Jordan Hamilton.

Jeff

I agree

Z

JHam and Stone over Chandler and Miller?? yeap ive seen it all on this blog because of salary? and upside (which means Project)

John bacarella

Only one trade to make. Lets go for Dwight Howard. I think he is looking for a team where he will be the primary focal point but in contention to compete for a title. Meanwhile, you will have to give up Denver’s best player in gallo and Javale McGee. Pg Lawson sg iggy sf chandler of faired and c Howard.

Giovanni

No trade?
First round exit….

Trade Miller for Nolan Smith?
Or for another younger pg(a dream)

Or guys what do you think to take Ben Gordon?

Mozgov and other for Gordon?

Nah…

I respect Masaj that fear to ruin chemistry or other things,,
But i’m not optimistic..

If we arrived 4 in the western maybe we can pass the first round(vs Memphis?)but after Thunder or Spurs..

Record	52 - 24
Pythagorean Record	50.4- 25.6
Projected Pyth Rec (82 Gms)	54.3 - 27.7
Defensive Efficiency	102.1
Offensive Efficiency	107.5
Pace Factor	97.2
Field Goal %	48.1%
Opp Field Goal %	44.6%
3P Field Goal %	34.0%
Opp 3P Field Goal %	36.47%
Free Throw %	69.9%
Opp Free Throw %	73.5%
Effective FG%	51.8%
Opp Effective FG%	49.4%
True Shooting %	54.7%
Opp True Shooting %	53.0%
Def Rebound Rate	72.1%
Off Rebound Rate	31.4%
Total Rebound Rate	52.0%

Denver Nuggets Blog – Roundball Mining Company

Subscribe

Featured Sections

Nuggets Advanced Stats
(Through 76 Games)

Categories

Search

Archives

Blogroll

Woj: “Nuggets unlikely to make deal”

Denver Nuggets Blog – Roundball Mining Company

Subscribe

Featured Sections

Nuggets Advanced Stats(Through 76 Games)

Categories

Search

Archives

Blogroll

Woj: “Nuggets unlikely to make deal”

Nuggets Advanced Stats
(Through 76 Games)