What Denver Lost With Andre Iguodala

As the reaction here at Roundball Mining Company and towards me on Twitter has trickled in surrounding the loss of Andre Iguodala a general consensus seems to be forming that the move isn’t that big a deal for the Nuggets in the 2014 season.

The explanations seem to be centering around two things, that Iguodala didn’t shoot well last season, and that he turned the ball over a lot.

Now both of those things are true and they both hurt the Nuggets at points this season but Iguodala did plenty this season to help the Nuggets, and those things are going to be very difficult to replace.

First of all Iguodala was the best Nugget on the floor defensively every single time he played. The Nuggets gave up almost 5 points per 100 possessions more when Iggy was not on the floor then when he was going from 104.9 points when he played to 109.6 points, a number that would have been last in the league, when he sat.

A player that dynamic isn’t easy to find normally and with the little bit of money that the Nuggets now have to sign players it just won’t happen. Combine this move with the trade of Kosta Koufos, the best defender of the Nuggets bigs last season and it is hard to see how the Nuggets already mediocre defense won’t plummet towards the bottom of the league.

Offensively while Iguodala struggled to space the floor and had some turnover problems the offense was still almost a full point per 100 possessions better with him on the floor then when he sat.

What Iguodala did well was incredibly important for Denver as he finished a spectacular 76 percent of his 206 shots in the restricted area and finished third on the team in assist rate at 22.4, behind only Ty Lawson’s 30.2 and Andre Miller’s 32.2 marks.

The next highest mark for a player who played significant minutes was Danilo Gallinari’s 11.2 mark, followed by Wilson Chandler’s 8.3. The mark of Evan Fournier, someone now expected to see a dramatic increase in minutes, was a bit better at 15.5 but still fell well short of Iggy’s.

So now Denver must find someone to replace not only Iguodala’s finishing at the rim (for comparison Kenneth Faried who many will probably point too finished just 62 percent of his shots there), but also his passing.

Finally Denver will have to find a way to replace 2779 minutes, a number that led the team by 266 minutes over Lawson and ranked just outside of the top 20 in the league. Fournier will pick up some of those minutes but Iguodala also played a lot at small forward where Gallinari now will moss most of the season.

Yes Andre Iguodala did some things that hurt the Nuggets but his loss is a big one.

His loss will matter on both sides of the ball and it will matter a lot.

Denver now has to pick itself up and try and replace not just fantastic wing and team defense but also find a new secondary creator to share the floor with Miller and Lawson, and someone to soak up a lot of minutes, all with a very little amount of money.

The rest of the offseason is setting up to be very interesting in Denver.

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  • Duane Grasmick

    New coach, new system so we don’t know exactly how Shaw will play his roster. I personally think that the overall team defense will be better because it will be emphasized more than with Karl. Players won’t be out of position as much because the gambling will not take place as much.

    That being said, the Nuggets have so many questions for 2013-14 that as a fan, I find myself really excited to watch and see those questions being answered one way or the other.

  • eddi0

    Two words, three syllables…Paul Milsap. He doesn’t help at the SG position obviously but would give us a legit post presence and great rebounder. Faried can be our 6th man, energy man off the bench. Really is no 2 way SG’s left so might have to see if Fournier/Hamilton can hold down the ship this season.

    • LBJ

      He is probably headed to Dallas.

      • eddi0

        why would he go to Dallas? They already have a full-time starting PF in Dirk. It’s not like last year when Dirk was hurt the majority of the season and they had to platoon Brand, Marion, Wright at PF. He’s too expensive to be a bench guy.

        • LBJ

          I think he would fit pretty well with Dirk. Dirk plays a lot on the perimeter

          • LBJ

            Millsap to Atlanta, OJ Mayo to Bucks, Calderon to Dallas

            Meanwhile, nothing for Nuggets. Josh and Timmy, i love our plan B!

            • Mikey K

              See my above post. This is Plan B. Do nothing. Too late in the game and nothing worth signing. We dumped Karl because he was too stuck in his old school ways and wouldn’t play Fournier and the others till we lost Gallo and he had no choice. Good or not, it’s what we’ve got. If not, it’s time to pray to the lottery gods. If it works out, hopefully we have some cap space to sign someone in FA.

      • Ryan

        Milsap is going to atlanta.

  • Tonia01

    The bad thing is that AI decided to leave after many good PGs already found a team. Now Denver has little opportunities to fill the roster in that position. I hope the organization has a plan B and is not forced to improvise.

  • Len Nunes

    “it is hard to see how the Nuggets already mediocre defense won’t plummet towards the bottom of the league.” Coach Shaw’s job is to stop this from happening PERIOD

    • dynamo.joe

      Well Chandler better be as good as some people around here think because he is the only guy left on the team that knows how to spell defense.

      • Dikembe

        And he shall get the chance to prove it with AI out. I’m fairly confident he will fill the void well in time, and will definitely be a better scorer

  • Brit

    Fornier and Hamilton will get closer to AI than any of us think. Defense? can’t get much worse. But EF was ballin’ on D when he was in there. I think Mosgov and McGee will have to protect the rim . . .shaw will show them how.

  • Darius

    Trade Anthony Randolph and Evan Fournier for Afflalo! Good for both teams and I miss Aaron

    • Pickles1731

      Fournier is the next Ginobili, heck no!

    • Robin GRAVES

      good god no.
      Wow.
      Crazy.

  • Trafalgar Law

    might as well blow this roster up instead of being a 6,7,8 playoff team.

    • eddi0

      Agreed. We are either competing for a championship or we are in complete rebuild mode. All those teams inbetween those two strata are just a waste of space IMHO.e

    • Pickles1731

      Disagree. We still have Ty Lawson, Faried, Gallinari, Chandler, and McGee. I don’t want to trade these talents just so we can bottom out. We are one trade away from getting a legit star and being contenders. But I do see your point because the sucky part is that the West is looking stacked (as usual). Iggy made Warriors better, Rockets getting Dwight, San Antonio is San Antonio, Clippers got Redick and Dudley, OKC will be back, and so will the Grizzlies. Hard to see us getting better than the 6 seed. Heck even the T-Wolves and Blazers made some moves. Maybe us and the Knicks will get low playoff seeds, which means nice draft picks for next years loaded draft.

      • googergieger

        Rockets aren’t going to get better. Orlando had everyone defending and a great defensive coach. Rockets have no one defending and a horrible defensive coach. Granted they’ll be better, but not better than us. Golden State is still a team we should be able to beat rather easily. As long as we don’t bend over a barrel and let them have at us, like Karl’s plan for the playoffs. Spurs pretty much just had last year. They should have won, but next year? Duncan I think this was his last great year. Ginobli is still a corpse. Parker is going to be a year slower. OKC is still a one dimensional team. Grizz lost Hollins and still have no great prospects at SF/SG. Wolves will be an interesting prospect, still let’s get Kirelenko, and compete. We are going to miss Iggy’s d and general all around glue guyness, but mostly cause Gallo is going to miss a chunk. When Gallo comes back and gets healthy, with someone like Kirelenko to help with the D, we’ll be no worse for wear. I mean we will be, but denial and all.

        • Pickles1731

          I agree that we definitely need to keep competing. We have the talent to be a playoff team that could upset someone, so why waste it? I just think that most of the West’s best are adding players and we have already lost two pretty solid pieces (Iggy and Koufos). I would argue that RIGHT NOW we are the 6th best team in the West. We need to start making moves because all the good players are being snatched up right before us!

        • Charliemyboy

          Reasonable response. Not sure about the Rockets. Nor Golden State. Iggy had intangibles that made a significant difference. But we were good prior to him. Trying to adjust my attitude from so negative to reasonable optimism.

          • googergieger

            Iggy is a great player and the best perimeter defender in the game. Howard was/is the best interior defender in the game. However the right pieces need to be around you. Names thrown together randomly don’t work. Only reason Miami worked/works is because James is the best player in the world, the east is powerful weak, and James doesn’t get called for fouls and only meaningless role players on that team ever get in foul trouble.

            Iggy will be missed, but again only because Gallo isn’t there. Iggy would have helped us stay afloat until Gallo got back, and then helped Gallo ease into 100%. Which is why I say go after Kirelenko, who can do some of what Gallo/Iggy brought to the table, which will help us a lot.

      • Charliemyboy

        In retrospect I think management might be savvy enough to know that we do have good players w/o the necessity of a major change. KK was significant, but not major. I hear there is a good draft but don’t know who would fit in. We don’t know Shaw’s style. I suspect better defense but not as effective in the paint. It will still be a miracle to match 57 wins even if we do better in the playoffs, which I doubt.

    • dynamo.joe

      LOL, playoffs.

      • avarra

        We have to remember that we were planning on having this be a kind of trial year anyway – what with a new coach and a practically brand new FO.

        Iggy bolted and that’s a drag – I’m actually a little depressed about that, but now we have a lot of cap space and next year’s FA class is going to be much better than this year’s crop so we wait. That may not be the worst thing.

        All we can do now is play our hearts out – hope that Shaw is the real deal and beat the pants off of GS EVERY single time we play them. lol

        • dynamo.joe

          I guess that depends on what you thought we had this past season. I thought we had a front office that could suss out talent where ever it was hidden. I thought we were 2 deep at every position except PF with guys that could be starters. I thought we had a coach who made exceptionally bad decisions in regards to minute allocation.

          If that’s how you saw the team (and I don’t think I was the only one in that camp), only one of those things needed changing.

    • Robin GRAVES

      yeah. Get rid of Lawson and Gallo.
      Get rid of Chandler, Fournier, Faried.
      Trade everything and sacrifice a virgin to get Asshole Iguodala back.
      Jeezus. Some of you need to find a new team.

      • Trafalgar Law

        douche..

        • Robin GRAVES

          Ah.. watta matter??
          Hwurt ywour fweewings?

  • tytechortz

    This may put the Nuggets in a position to draft Spencer Dinwiddie next year.

    • Pickles1731

      Screw that guy. Too inconsistent. Look at his shooting splits from last year.

      • Scott

        That was his freshman year in college. And I agree I would love Dinwidee on the nuggs. Hometown hero and versatile.

        • tytechortz

          Big time. He’ll be able to do so many things in the pros. Smooth. He could be a 20pt 6 reb 6 ast guy this year.

        • Pickles1731

          I guess you are right. My CSU diploma is getting in the way of me being rational. He would probably fit well with our team. Especially because Tad Boyle really preaches defense at CU. Always loved that about his players, they play balls to the walls.

          • tytechortz

            Ha. I was thinking you might be a Buff hater. Good on you for coming around! And so quickly. Rams would have beaten the Buffs last year were it not for Spencer’s monster game.

            • Pickles1731

              Haha that’s probably the reason I am a hater! But he had a lot of really great games where he hit almost all of his 3’s. It would suck if he had a monster year and became a lottery pick because he would fit perfectly with our team right now.

              • tytechortz

                That could be a problem. NBAdraft.net has him 16th or so, which is where i could see the Nuggs drafting if they just let the youngsters grow this year, which is what I vote for. Play the crap out of Hamilton, Randolph, McGee, Evan, and Green and see who is the real deal going forward.

              • Pickles1731

                I just saw that Chad Ford has Dinwiddie as his 41st ranked prospect right now. So clearly there is a disparity in where people think he will go. It will all depend on how all of these freshman play next year. Next years draft is crazy good and the Nuggets could grab a couple great young players. A guy like McLemore could drop to us next year. Agreed though, we need to start actually developing our young talent now that Karl is gone.

  • disqus_dqCdNE3KZO

    Lol even with the stats, everyone here doesn’t think a Lawson, Chandler, Gallo, Arthur, McGee line up is still great? I was glad he didn’t resign with us when I heard we were offering him nearly 13 mil a year, this guy didn’t even shoot over 60% from the line his 3 point ability is diminishing, I would easily take Chandler’s Fts, 3 point ability, and his defense over Iggys. People forgot we missed chandler for half the season and it was nice to have iggy start in his place but I think its time for him to step up and be the guy with Lawson, Gallo, and McGee.

    • disqus_dqCdNE3KZO

      he also couldnt or didnt seem to want to shut curry down in the playoffs, so when it comes down to it we didnt need him and he wasnt as great as a defender as everyone feels like.

      • avarra

        I disagree with your last point in that I don’t think anyone would have been capable of shutting Curry down – the guy was completely unstoppable. I can’t blame AI for that – Ai played very hard for us and played tremendous defense every night. As I said above, it sucks that he’s gone but nothing we can do about it.

        I will agree with your first point in that Chandler can definitely step up and give us some awesome minutes. Now he gets a chance too. :)

  • Native Nugget

    While I’m concerned about what we’re losing in Igoudala and who we might bring in this late in free agency, I’m more worried about why he chose to leave and what this means for Denver. Igoudala took less money to go elsewhere. Why? He had his choice between a four or a five year offer from Denver, both of which were for more money than GS. Did we just take a step back in the direction of perennial basement status where we can’t attract or keep good talent?

    • tytechortz

      Exactly what I was wondering. I wonder if Shaw and the front office will get to interview him to see if it is something that can be fixed. After reading Andre’s tweet, maybe Curry was recruiting him during the playoffs.

    • theweatherman53

      I think the Warriors promised to make some more moves and put people around him, they are crowded with talented perimeter players now, I could easily see them moving barnes or Thompson with Bogut for a healthy star down low. Or even Lee who they’ve been shopping around a bit. I thought it was Dwight but that hasn’t worked out. Maybe a Bynum?

      • theweatherman53

        Plus Curry complements him so well. Iggy can handle the ball some and let Curry play off it and Iggy is a slasher and now has a few great shooters to hit off his drives.

      • David Tesler

        GS is SOL now. They are tapped out. Too much deadweight, plus a dead 21 million in the books that is going to be an albatross. Therefore, they are NOT a playoff team, and never will be. Last year they got lucky – but this year, they’re not.

        Plus the curse I placed on AI is effective immediately.

        • LBJ

          They dumped their 20 million of dead weight on Utah today.

          They most certainly are a playoff team.

    • googergieger

      Mark Jackson is a politician. Probably working Iggy since the playoffs. No idea what GS is planning though. Klay or Barnes is going to have to sit now, no? So they come off the bench now? What does their closing line up look like?

      • David Tesler

        Mark Jackson will get fired mid-season. Bet on it.

        And GS’s turn to pick the #1.

      • Pickles1731

        They are gonna do their small ball lineup that worked so well against us if I were to guess. PG-Curry, SG-Thompson, SF-Iggy, PF-Barnes, and C-Bogut. Solid starting lineup. But they are now gonna lose both Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry, so their depth is gone. Anything happens to Steph’s ankles and they will be struggling.

        • googergieger

          It only worked well against us because Karl tried to beat them by going small despite it being our worse chance to win. They won’t be able to beat most teams going small.

      • David Acker

        GS signing Iggy was strange to me. GS must make other moves now like Lee or Landry, I think Barnes and Thompson are both keepers but how do you get them minutes. What about Jack. Strange signing to me unless other moves are coming

        • googergieger

          A lot of overrated “basketball” minds out there. Granted we aren’t any better as arm chair gm’s or whatever you want to call us, but still. People believe the Nets are contenders now. People though Lakers were last year. People thought Knicks were last year. People think Houston is a top five team now. People say Harden is a top five guy in the league. Pieces need to fit. An identity needs to exist for a team. Etc.

          Golden State is a team that lives and dies by the jumper. Iguodala will be left open all the time. Are they trying for a more defensive minded team now? A small ball to rival Miami? Miami plays in a very weak eastern conference(this doesn’t get talked about enough) and they have Lebron James. Who yes is the best player in the world, but he also doesn’t get fouls called on him. Which sometimes extends to his whole team. Golden State plays in a very tough western conference, and will have fouls called on them. Which is why Iggy makes no sense for them. I think they are getting him for the name, and not for anything else. I will say if they trade Barnes and Lee for a versatile four. Heck Ryan Anderson! Then really great team there and really smart move. Current team assembled though?

          *blows raspberry*

          • Robin GRAVES

            wow.
            Did either of us ever think we would see the day when we agree on something? Awesome post. Outside of the last two sentences, I agree with you totally.

  • Noah

    Sign Paul Milsap from Utah.

    Trade Miller.

    And if is possible trade:

    JaVale McGee to Sacramento;

    Sacramento send M. Thornton to Utah and

    Denver bring D. Cousins from Sacramento and G. Hayward from Utah.

    • Warner Dean

      There’s no way Sacramento or Utah would do this come on now. The reason why you want Hayward and Cousins is because they’re very promising young players. The same reasons why Utah and Sacramento would want to keep them. Approach these trades objectively not as a Nuggets fan

      • LBJ

        Why don’t we trade Miller and Javale for LeBron instead?

        • John Kobbeman

          Well the numbers work, why wouldn’t Miami take it? (sarcasm font)

  • dynamo.joe

    Well I have the Nuggets at 37 wins this season as currently constructed. Maybe Timmy should call the Knicks and see if we can trade them 2 or 3 players and all our picks for Bargnani.

    • Greg Boyarko

      I can’t wait till you see how wrong you are. This is still a 50 win team, mark my words.

      • Mikey K

        The only way the Denver Nuggets win 50 games is you using them in NBA 2k14…

      • dynamo.joe

        Aside from a 2 man race for league MVP between Lawson and Faried or picking up a high quality player like AK-47 (I don’t think we have the dough), I don’t see anything that can save this season for the Nuggets.

    • Lane Yetter

      I think if Shaw brings great team defense, like they had in Indiana, the nuggets can win 50 plus games next season. I think OJ Mayo would be a great pickup. You will lose some defensively but he can create his own shot, get 5 assists a game and hits the 3 at over 40%. Wouldn’t he rather go to Denver and contend, than Milwaukee? 3 yrs/24 mil. Get it done!

  • Warner Dean

    The sky is not falling but I’d really like to hear SOMETHING from the front office. They simply don’t have the credibility to have something like this happen without releasing something to the press. I still like this team a lot even though I liked it a lot more with Iguodala on it. I still hate the Koufos trade and would have loved to have drafted a guy like Jamaal Franklin to mitigate the potential loss of Iguodala. It really appears like this FO put all their eggs in one basket, and they’ve been caught with their pants down. Not a good look in their first summer. As of right now, I’m still calling 48-50 wins. I think a lot of you will be surprised but what Chandler can bring to the table next season. I don’t want him playing SG but he can if need be. Let Ty grow and Gallo heal, we’ll be just fine.

    • David Tesler

      The front office as of right now has ZERO credibility. They have lost the Big Three. Ujiri, Karl and now AI.

      Kroenke needs to sell the damn team and get the hell out of Dodge. Like last year.

  • Ernie

    This is where the rubber met the road for Josh Kroenke. We can argue about whether the team will be OK, but now it isn’t just front office talent that wants out. And this time it had nothing to do with money, or going back home, or anything other than basketball.

  • Greg Boyarko

    The way I see it we’re in the second tier of West teams next year.

    Tier 1:

    Houston – Will be very good with Harden, Howard, and possibly another free agent like Millsap or Josh Smith, forming a big 3. Plus they got Lin, Beverly, and Parsons who are all pretty good.

    GS – Will be very good as all their young talent has had a year more to grow, and they just added Iggy.

    LAC – Will be very good with essentially the same team but a vastly better coach.

    Tier 2:

    Memphis – Didn’t really make any significant changes, so they’ll be about the same, possibly a bit worse with the coaching change.

    OKC – Going to fall off some with Kevin Martin leaving, and with Scott Brooks they wouldn’t be going too far regardless.

    San Antonio – Will also fall off a bit, as Ginobili is a shell of his old self, and Duncan will be 38.

    Denver – Will fall off some with Iggy leaving, however we have depth at SG with Fournier and Hamilton, and I don’t think the loss will be as massive as people seem to think.

    • LBJ

      Are you looney? Spurs are seconds away from winning NBA title and we are in the same tier as them? After losing Iggy, KK, C Brew and Gallo????

  • disqus_1Bi80jWKZE

    I hate being a nuggets fan sometimes. Matt is right, this is a complete disaster. Even worse than the impact on this team (completely devastating), it shows players really don’t want to play for us. Whether its kroenke, weather, or just being in fly over country, I don’t know, but we have no shot without hitting the jackpot in the lotto, and I think we should try accept that fact and plan accordingly. Lets sit gallo,all year, start ty, Fournier, chandler, faried Nd McGee, give up 140 points per game, and hope to strike it rich in the lotto.

    • Mikey K

      Except that, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I doubt they’d know Andrew Wiggins if they were to win the lotto and that’s spotting them a map to Lawrence, KS and the “ANDREW WIGGIN__”

    • Charliemyboy

      And I’m a 20 year Nug fan now living in Reno. SF is 3 hrs away and shows high potential now and high character. But I’ll stick w/the Nugs, if. If they show some vision and character. I love the guys, the best set in the NBA to watch. I feel a 57 wins season made my weeks, even losing in the playoffs. They weren’t going to win it all anyhow, so that 57 wins was nice. Now it will be 37-47. Do I want to emotionally suffer through that next year? I PRAY I’m wrong.

  • William Nemirow

    Nuggets are going to be a disaster defensively w/o Koufos and Iggy (and Gallo). Without Gallo this isn’t a playoff team. Nuggets should’ve given last season’s team another go: w/o Miller, a year more experience, and more Fournier we could’ve been good.

    • Charliemyboy

      I’ve been saying that all along. Poor George; where he was going has been decimated. If he had only been more humble and tweaked his lineup during the year, we would be contenders. Now we’re not even pretenders.

  • Robin GRAVES

    I really believe that systems can make a better defense than individual talents. I’m not crying right now. I would have like to have seen him back.. but hardly as much as most Nuggets fans. We didn’t overpay, and you know what? I was right about him.

    • William Nemirow

      what makes you think Shaw is Popovich or Phil Jackson?

      • Robin GRAVES

        That’s not what I was saying, but what makes you think he isn’t? He played for and coached with Jackson for a decade.. I imagine he picked up some things. I am not now, nor never was, all that impressed with Iguodala. Glad our biggest rivals overpaid instead of us. It will hurt in the short term (because the team planned around him coming back) But let’s see how he does now soon in his 30s, when his entire game is based on athleticism. I’m cool with it.. and it hasn’t been said yet.. but we just got younger. COOL.

        • William Nemirow

          but Iggy is 29. I agree his game is going to go down hill fast, but probably after he’s 33.

  • Robin GRAVES

    Iggy tweets “God is good” today.

    Maybe he can miracle in a few free throws for him.

    • Charliemyboy

      Unfortunately, he doesn’t need to.

      • Robin GRAVES

        Let me tell you something. Until this day, one of the most horrifyingly embarrassing things that happened to me.. junior high. I pitched an airball at the free throw line in front of a packed gym. But it was still some 12,000 seats shy of Pepsi center capacity.

  • Robin GRAVES

    Welcome back Corey Brewer!!
    (him I liked)

  • googergieger

    Kirelenko.

    • Brad from Arvada

      Not a bad suggestion, Googs. One of the best defenders avail.

    • David Acker

      Any thoughts on a shooter or do we give Hamilton and Evan a chance?

      • Mikey K

        Josh has pushed all his chips to the middle on Fournier and Hamilton.

      • googergieger

        I was a fan of Jared Dudley. As he is a great cutter, smart defender, and a high iq guy in general. Also hear he is a great team mate. Dude that can play the two and three off the bench as well. But Clips got him. Though with Redick and him, I feel one is going to be the odd man out come mid season. So they’ll try to ship one out eventually. Still we have Evan and Hamilton. Evan I think has a ceiling of a more controlled and resilient Ginobli. Hamilton is a toss up. He seemed like a coachable and drama free JR. Karl still didn’t play him, so we’ll see what happens if/when he gets his real shot.

        I don’t know, personally I’m more concerned with our defense than our shooting. Don’t get me wrong we need to get better at the free throw line, but that embarrassing game we lost against Portland where we went 0 for 80 from beyond the arc, showed how little we need the three point shot really. We almost won the effin game. Our defense needs to get better. Then worry about the rest. Sefolasha(?) wouldn’t be a bad option. I mean not the best shooter but would help with the defense. Probably could be picked up cheap as well.

  • David Tesler

    Bring back Billups and let him be the general for the team. Dump Miller.

    • heykyleinsf

      TOTALLY!

  • Qmill30

    Monta Ellis Have It All

  • Paul Griggs

    So far, the Nuggets are Oh for the Off Season. Dumped a HOF Coach…lost a young and talented exec. Brought in an untested coach (not a loss but not spectacular either)…brought in an untested exec from a team that doesn’t have a winning tradition…trading a 27 pick for a 46 pick and cash…drafting Green, a guy who doesn’t seem to fill any holes…losing Iggy, their best defender and most mature player (Not the worst loss, he wasn’t worth the money he wanted and never seemed happy in Denver)…trading Koufos, a solid C for a sluggo PF…lose Stone to FA. Tell you what, while we’re at it, trade Lawson to the Lakers for their 3rd string PG, cut Andre Miller, trade Chandler and Faried to whatever team has Marcus Camby and let Forunier go back to France. I hope we win 40 games.

    • Tyler

      What the hell did I just read?

    • Bryan

      I’ll remind you that Masai was an untested exec from a terrible franchise before he came here. George Karl may eventually be a HOF coach but he’s a terrible playoff coach, one of the worst playoff coaches ever.

      Green can fill the back up pg (this is why Stone is gone) role and play sg and he’s a good shooter which is something the Nuggets need more of. The Nuggets also got him at a spot later than he was projected, so they got good value for him.

  • Qmill30

    Be interesting to see the warriors this year. Iggy is a great get for them but they relied big time last year on Jack and Landry who are both gone. Also can Bogut really stay healthy? And does Lee’s return affect their defense and offense because when he was out they played more to their strengths.

    • Brad from Arvada

      Haven’t heard that Jack and Landry have signed anywhere else yet. Have you?

      • Qmill30

        I’m pretty sure they renounced their bird rights so they can’t really resign them unless they still have a mid level exception or something I think. Jack also tweeted something that sort of closed the door on a return as well

  • Isoc Von Tronstein

    2 years from now the Nuggets will be glad that Iggy signed elsewhere.

    • Charliemyboy

      Why?

  • slugdugg

    The only way I could be more underwhelmed by this off-season would be to sign Monta Ellis

    • Mikey K

      There’d be a riot outside Pepsi Center….

  • Mikey K

    This leads to an interesting question…

    Which team wins more games next season: The Nuggets or the Avalanche?

  • Brad from Arvada

    And the Kronks remain silent.

    • Brad from Arvada

      . . . as Millsap signs with Hawks.

      • Mikey K

        Seriously. We’re going with what we’ve got. I think that was the plan all along. Josh sank $44M into McGee. They spent draft picks on Fournier and JHam and the others. It’s time to see what they have. They dumped Karl because he wouldn’t.

        Why bring in anyone that takes away from that. It’s too late in the shot clock to sign anyone. Play it out good or bad. If it goes to shit, there’s the stacked lottery. If not, well, we overachieved again.

    • LBJ

      Can’t they focus on wrecking the Lambs and Arsenal – and leave us alone?

      • Mikey K

        Haven’t you seen the Arsenal fans. They’re all but burning Stan in effigy.

        • LBJ

          It takes special skills to wreck 4 pro franchises!

  • polynikes27

    So is Josh tearing it all down? Right now our starting five is Lawson (PG) Fournier (SG) Chandler (SF) Faried (PF) McGee (C), with Miller and Arthur being the main guys off the bench. That team is destined for 35 wins, well out of the playoffs (in the west at least) and not bad enough for one of the true studs in next years draft.

  • Nuggz2

    Guess I’m the only one excited for next year without Iggy. I loved Iggy and the effort he brought. But now we finally get to see what the kids are are made of. I’m looking forward to seeing how JHam, Fournier, Randolph and McGee handle more minutes. I wouldn’t be upset if the Nuggets didn’t bring any big names in. Play the year out as is and adjust next offseason

    • Brad from Arvada

      Nuggz, that sounds good until you realize that losing really blows . . . and their are serious consequences. Lots of money and personnel gets fired. Fans stop coming to games, no one tunes into Altitude, and players and management lose their jobs. Really, you can’t take a year off in pro sports. Too much is at stake.

      • Nuggz2

        Losing may blow but so does mediocrity. And winning in the regular season doesn’t guarantee jobs or personnel. Just ask Iggy and Karl. Every team has gone through a down year. Even the great Heat and Lakers have missed the playoffs in the playoff run the Nuggets have had. One bad year isn’t the end of the world. Especially when you have a young team with a lot of questions that need answers.

        • Brad from Arvada

          Good points, Nuggz. Just hate the whispers of “rebuilding.” I do think the Kronks will bring in some much-needed help to improve this team — this summer — as I don’t believe they have any intentions of not winning the Western Conf. — this upcoming season. Big names aren’t needed necessarily, but help is. The roster today cannot win the division, much less the conference.

          • Nuggz2

            I agree help would be nice but I just hope they do it responsibly. There’s no need to breaking the bank for guys that aren’t going to push us over the top. And it appears any free agent who can do that this year is already spoken for

            • Brad from Arvada

              I guarantee JK and TC are burning some oil tonight figuring this out. Agreed that FAs are slim-pickins . . . but I wouldn’t be surprised if a deal is made soon that has nothing to do with bringing in a FA, but someone totally off the radar who everyone thought was locked up in a contract. We HAVE to have defensive help or we have no chance.

              • Charliemyboy

                That’s right. Josh knew Iggy would stay when he fired Karl. Sure. He said he was only interested in a championship. Sure. That’s why he broke something that needed much less fixing. Oh, maybe he was interested in a championship… ‘in the year 2121’….

    • polynikes27

      Everyone keeps mentioning how this will be great cause JHam and Randolph will get more minutes, but Ham was the 26th overall pick who hasn’t been able to get on the court, and Randolph has been a disappointment for four different teams. These are not the building blocks of a winning team.

      • Nuggz2

        They may not building blocks but I still think they are very solid young players. JHam can shoot lights out and can rebound well for a SG. He takes questionable shots at times and needs some work on defense. But he’s still young enough with plenty of potential to give a shot. Randolph also rebounds well and is not a bad defender. His biggest issues are fouls and shot selection. Nothing a little time in the game and some coaching can’t help with.

  • Clive Lee

    ugh. AI was a top-5 wing defender in the league who could dish. huge loss. and we didn’t get anything back?

    • avarra

      I’m also very very curious as to why the Nuggets decided not to do a sign a trade so that they could get something back. Maybe GS was offering them crap in return or maybe the Nuggs wanted to save their money for next year’s FA class? Does anyone know for sure?

  • Clive Lee

    oh, and you shouldn’t discount a player who can play 2800 minutes a season at a high level. that adds consistency to the lineup + builds chemistry, something our young lineup will definitely miss.

    • Mikey K

      Being that we’re a team that can’t obviously land top tier talent or where top tier talent wants out from, we have two choices: Attempt to allow someone from our current core of players (Gallo or Ty are the top prospects) grow into that special talent or two reach a level of talented shittyness that we get a massive number of ping pong balls next May.

      We’re still too good compared to the Charlottes, Detroits, and Phoenixs of the league to reach those heights of shit, but not good enough for some reason to attract top flight free agents.

      • googergieger

        Well I think Karl had something to do with that and to be fair Shaw is still unproven. Hopefully we can do something next year, and if nothing else see our young team grow and not regress.

        • Charliemyboy

          I wonder if Josh knew enough to know that Iggy would have stayed if Karl had stayed. Isn’t that what an owner/manager should know? So now he wants Ellis. Is that a good swap?

          • googergieger

            Ha, no. Karl had nothing to do with Iggy. The reason we haven’t landed top tier talent was because of Karl. Constantly making it to the first round only, is not an attractive option for people.

            • Charliemyboy

              Well great! Now that we have Shaw, they are clamoring to come here. Nope, it’s the management and culture. Karl was on the way. Now who did we get? Not even Ellis.

              • googergieger

                No.

              • Charliemyboy

                Ask Iggy. He likes GC culture and turned down our culture and $19 million.

              • googergieger

                You mean our hasn’t started it’s first season yet culture? Okay. Jackson politicized Iguodala. It happens.

              • Charliemyboy

                Not sure what you said, but our culture with Masai, Karl and young team could have kept Iggy in my estimation. Politics are life and we better adjust to them. Karl knew our strengths to a point and built them. Our speed and youth. The team intact was formidable this year. IF Karl could have learned to cultivate a half-court game and developed McGee, etc.. next year could have been a monster. I’m not sure Karl could have done it due to his established conceptions; but I so credit him for what he had established, and now it is in all in desperate mode. I pray I’m surprised but bet we get no further than this year for many to come.

              • Robin GRAVES

                I think there is some unfairness to Shaw here.
                A few active NBA players actually played with him
                and against him, and he’s been in the mix since he
                retired as a player and moved on to coaching.
                Players respect the hell out of Shaw.
                Compared to Karl’s notorious favoritism reputation,
                our culture did nothing but become more attractive.

                Iggy just totally went to the dark side.
                “Good. Good. Let the hate flow through you!”
                To me, I can only laugh when anyone attributes
                that to character. HAHA!!! Business? Maybe..
                Because like in no other human arena.. in the
                business world, people are vapid, cold-blooded,
                scheming, back-stabbing opportunists. I’ll buy
                that argument. But character? Fuck no.
                Respect.. again. Fuck no.

    • LBJ

      Because after dumping their scum on Utah, GSW had no need to do one.

  • JED89

    We definitely lost a lot when Iggy walked but I don’t view it as the end of the world. paying a guy his age 12 mil a year is a risk for someone who relies solely on athleticism. I honestly think we can replace what he brings on offesnse but no way do we replace his defense. Unless Shaw can get McGee defending the paint like Larry Sanders I see a painful year of growth for this team. Still I see us making the postseason as the 6th seed and ultimately I believe this to have set us back about a year.

  • Mikey K

    Keep in mind that this was a risky deal the moment Masai made it. It’s always a risk to take on an expiring contract or a potential expiring contract that the player has total control over. It COULD turn into a short term rental if the guy doesn’t like the circumstances of either his trade, the direction of the franchise he’s dealt to, or just the fact he believes he can hit the jackpot elsewhere.

    In the end, we end up with the break of not having to pay him, plus getting him got us out from under two horrid contracts in Harrington and AAA. Now we need Tim to get rid of Miller’s contract and make a few other deals to clear some cap space for NEXT summer.

  • MacKenzie Pantoja

    I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. We can’t dwell on players we lost. We must focus on what we have. I’m not talking about optimism. I just think we need to look at this team the way it is now and see where we must improve. The way I see it, we desperately need a 2 unless you think Fournier is ready to start this early in his career. I also see a team with 2 starting caliber small forwards (although one is injured). We should be able to trade Chandler if we can find a serviceable replacement for Gallinari while he’s injured

    My proposal for fixing our problem at the 2:

    First, sign Al-Farouq Aminu for approximately the mid-level exception, maybe just a little bit less. First of all, Aminu must be a Connelly favorite, since the Hornets traded for him last year in the Chris Paul deal, and I’m pretty sure Aminu wasn’t GM Dell Demps’ idea given that Demps released the 22 year old after what was undeniably his best season. Aminu is a 6’9″ small forward with a 7’4″ wingspan who averaged 7.7 rebounds per game. He’s excellent on defense: the Hornets were 5.3 points better per 100 possessions with him on the floor, even though he usually shared the floor with the human turnstiles known as Ryan Anderson, Greivis Vasquez, and a guy related to Brook Lopez.

    Why sign a small forward? If we sign Aminu, Chandler becomes movable. We need someone to play the 3 until Gallinari comes back, so we can’t trade Chandler unless we sign a small forward, preferably Aminu. Aminu would start until Gallinari is healthy.

    We would then proceed by trading Chandler and the major drag Andre Miller for Wesley Matthews. Matthews has recently become the odd man out in Portland. They drafted C.J. McCollum, presumably with the intention of eventually playing him or Lillard (probably McCoullum) at the 2. They don’t have a backup point guard or a pure point guard on the roster (I would argue both Lillard and McCollum are tweeners), so they would value Miller’s passing and his potential ability to mentor two young guards. And Matthews is a good fit for Denver. He’s about as bad at finishing at the rim as any non-Bobcat in the league, but he’s a good 3 point shooter (.395 lifetime, and spooky consistent year by year), and he’s tough and competitive on defense.

    • Robin GRAVES

      WELL SAID. Cheers.

    • Ryan

      Ugh… Quote from Monty Williams last year on why Aminu was benched: “I just felt like I should give the opportunity to play to people that understand that being an NBA player is a privilege, not a right.” Sounds exactly like what we need: a petulant, unskilled player who was benched multiple times in New effing Orleans last year. Not to mention, he can’t shoot! He’s essentially a homeless man’s Faried! Of what use is that on a team that, collectively, can’t make a shot outside of the restricted area? I think it’s telling enough that the Pelicans wouldn’t even pick up his ROOKIE option, even to just use as trade bait…

  • Robin GRAVES

    If your girlfriend left you for a guy that drives a 1986 Cutlass, would you blame your boss for not paying you enough to afford a 2013 BMW??

    Iguodala is the asshole bad guy. GOOD RIDDANCE.

    • Charliemyboy

      My impression of Iguodala is that he is intelligent, extremely hard working, and a great companion in the locker room. He is above that analysis in not making money his God. He wants to win, not lose. It is only sad that we didn’t have the culture and character in management to keep him.

      • Robin GRAVES

        He’s an over-rated selfish asshole that never had any intention of returning.. strung us along anyway.. waited until he had enough leverage with less market competition.. then turned his ass on us.

        Oh boy.. what a guy! What character and gee whiz wouldn’t it be nice to be buddies with him? And he tweets “God is good” right after he shafts us.

        Oh I miss him so much. We’ll never be the same.

        • Charliemyboy

          Sour grapes; grow up. It’s business. This is not a kid’s whiner’s game. You could say the same for every player trying to do better. Our problem is we didn’t have the better culture for him.

          • Robin GRAVES

            Grow a pair. It never was grapes.. it was a lemon from day one.
            I never wanted them to lay down and die for him.. but that’s what they did. Lesson learned I hope for the Nuggets and anyone with self esteem enough

            • Charliemyboy

              If you want a lemon, that’s up to you. If Josh understood human nature, and wanted equity, he would have picked up one of the good FA’s prior to Iggy stalling, and let him go. FA’s don’t sit around to decide if they want to remain with a faltering basketball culture. If they stall, they are gone. He took less money for a better potential program due to our poor direction and vision, or poor communication to the team. In this game, savvy prevails over self-esteem. George Karl had self-esteem that cost him a job.
              I’m starting to think we may survive this with Kerelinko or Ellis coached. We were good without Iggy, but what a loss. The good news is I’m starting to think that Josh likes what is left and doesn’t have to make a major move.

              • Robin GRAVES

                I’m tired of all this “St. Iguodala” bullshit.
                He’s AN ASSHOLE.

                Blame everyone but him.

              • Charliemyboy

                Get some rest. Clean up your language. You’ll feel better. It’s business man.

              • Robin GRAVES

                thank you reverend charlie.
                Business can involve shittiness.
                Saying “It’s business” seems to
                make a lot of people think all things
                are fair and unquestionable.
                Business can mean opportunism.
                That’s what Asshole Iguodala did.

                Go follow the Warriors.
                You don’t deserve this team.

              • Charliemyboy

                Don’t talk that way or the devil may come and get you! Iguodala was taking care of himself. Can you blame him for that? You don’t want to take care of yourself? Where is it written that a player has to stay with a team when he can do better elsewhere? Name one please. The money isn’t the issue. Loyalty works in some venues, but not with these stars. So we need to get over it.

              • Robin GRAVES

                If Iguodala had one ounce of character in his body.. he would have told the Nuggets that he wanted to move on. He took his sweet time to get leverage and work the market. He left the team in a precarious position which could have been totally avoided with a little honesty. No, he’s an ass. You’re blaming the culture of the Nuggets?
                DUDE.. I’m telling you right now. I think it finally changed for the better on Friday.

              • Charliemyboy

                Aaaa, did Dwight tell the Lakers? Did Carmelo tell the Nuggets? Did any star tell their team before they left them? It’s not a matter of character, it’s a matter of practicality. Not the modes operandi at that level. Time to get real. He had to wait to see if he got the offer he wanted obviously. I hope the culture with the Nuggets changes. I haven’t see it yet. Just kiss the best season ever goodbye. I hope I’m proven wrong because I don’t like to spend time seeing us lose 1 of 2 each week, regardless of the playoffs.

              • Robin GRAVES

                aaah!!! Glad you brought Melo up.. YES HE DID TELL US. And further.. we got an amazing deal out of him. NADA for St. Iggy Ass. I could kiss Melo for the favor. I could roundhouse Iggyhole on the side of his ugly head.

              • Charliemyboy

                You’re right. Carmelo did tell us. But a multitude of others don’t. Did I hear the name Howard? That being said, could Josh have handled the deal better with Iggy? Could he have read the writing on the wall and been proactive instead of reactive, getting zilch? Could he have traded for Barnes or someone else instead of leaving a hole? I can hear your boo when GS plays in Denver above the rest. I don’t blame you, but I don’t blame him for doing what he thought was best for himself and his family. I do blame Josh for not reading the writing on the wall and not communicating establishing a solid vision that would have kept Iggy. You don’t think some of the other Nuggets want out with this disruption? I am sure going to win that big winning streak…

              • Robin GRAVES

                This is what is so hard for me to take seriously.. Kroenke/Connelly/Shaw TRIED. They just can’t win can they? If they would have moved on and not tried? They get the hate times ten that they do now.. but no.. they did try.. and because the jerk never intended on us for anything but a plan C at best.. it’s all their fault.

                THIS MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE AT ALL TO ME.

                But I absolutely LOVE it. He wasn’t worth it. Not even close. Now.. if they bring in Ellis and get ridiculous paying him? I’ll be pissed. There are a lot of options, but for me? I may be in the minority here.. but I see this opening a door for Erick Green, Corey Brewer and Evan Fournier. I would take Iggy over them.. all things being equal, but we know way too well that all things aren’t.. plus the fact Iggy is 30 now. (I’m going with Iggy from now on.. word is that he hates that nickname).

              • Charliemyboy

                You’re being more reasonable. Intentions do not a winner make. This is a blood game. Masai drew blood and did again in Toronto. Josh plays a little too much ‘I’ve got the money” not realizing that there are 30 other guys out there that have the money. These are young men, with agents influencing their decisions. There is a reason Green was where he was, so don’t be too optimistic. He needs time and muscles. Brewer is good because he’s smart and flexible, I think. Fournier has potential, and you know what I think about potential: we are now our potential. It can change, but we are what we are. I just wanted us to be on top rather than looking up. I’m hoping Josh’s correct vision is that we already have a contending situation.

              • Robin GRAVES

                at the end of the day..bar none..
                Iggy is obscenely over-rated and we are better off
                without him than to have had him hijack over 25%
                the entire payroll for four years.
                I don’t see any fault at all with our front office on this one.

    • Ryan

      I would start scouring the web for a 1986 Cutlass to restore…

      • Robin GRAVES

        Oh Iggy why didn’t you love me anymore..
        I can be like that other team
        I can change in to someone else to win your love
        I can sell my soul and self respect
        just to have you use me..
        make me feel like the nasty towel that wipes
        up the dog piss so you can keep your good
        towels for people you want to impress
        Just use me.. but please please don’t leave me

        • Charliemyboy

          ha! good job.. for balance:
          oh Iggy I’m glad you left me
          you didn’t want me, why should I want you?
          you thought you could do better
          can I think I can do better?
          I want to have a good team
          but I don’t want you to play on the team you want
          I only want to say nasty things about you because
          you just don’t love me anymore
          and I prefer lemons…
          boo, hoo

          • Robin GRAVES

            Sounds about right except for the lemons.
            I love our backcourt.
            Green, Brewer, Fournier (in certain mixes
            and matchups) had the door just blown wide
            open for them. Get the F out Iggy.. you suck.

  • Robin GRAVES

    Give Brian Shaw and this roster a chance.
    Think a little about the future.
    Stop acting like Iguodala is Michael Jordan.
    Nuggets fans over coveted and over rated him.
    Philadelphia fans were FAR less melancholy
    when he left them.. and he had been with
    them a hell of a lot longer and younger.
    Jesus people. Be more objective.

  • Robin GRAVES

    I want to review a few things to help a few people come to their senses, especially all these crazy ideas about “organizational culture”.
    But first.. I am disgusted with so many so-called “fans”.
    That asshole was here ONE YEAR. This is Tebow all over again.
    Ty Lawson? You may have heard of him? Losing HIM would maybe warrant
    the ridiculousness I am seeing around here. That asshole did us no favors by
    stringing us along while FA dried up when he never had the slightest intention
    of returning to begin with. But it was a LT favor for opening up the door for some sanity in not overpaying for the most over-rated player in basketball.
    Let’s look at some things.. (much of this borrowed from Rantsports)

    Iguodala was the highest paid player on the Nuggets last season at just under $15 million. He averaged 13 points, 5.4 assists and 5.3 rebounds per game. This is unacceptable. If you are paying a player that much money, he needs to be your go-to player in all aspects. When the game is on the line, you put your trust in those guys. Iguodala is not that guy. He prefers to be in the background, but get paid like a franchise guy. Iggy is not a franchise guy and that is what the Nuggets are wisely saving their money for.

    With a reputation of being an elite defender, it is easy to see why Golden State would pay a premium to have him on their roster. Upon closer inspection of Iguodala’s career, one could make the argument that he is not quite the elite defender he is made out to be. For example, Iguodala has never won a Defensive Player of the Year Award, nor has he ever made an NBA All-Defensive First Team. For a guy whose entire reputation is that of an elite defender, he sure lacks the credentials to back up that label. Because of that, the Nuggets balked at overpaying him.

    Denver’s front office was wise to not overpay him as he will be 34 years old when his contract expires and will likely not be productive enough to warrant his salary as he ages. Much like Kenyon Martin, his contract would become an albatross that is impossible to move for a productive asset. The Nuggets cannot afford to mortgage their future flexibility for a short-term gain and they smartly made the tough decision.
    The Nuggets are investing in their young talent and the future of the franchise. Letting Iguodala walk for nothing shows their commitment to that mentality. Evan Fournier will likely start in Iguodala’s place at shooting guard, while Shaw works to develop Fournier, Jordan Hamilton, Erick Green and Quincy Miller. A reactionary acquisition such as Ellis would be counter-productive to the development of the young talent on this team.

    Denver fans should feel a sense of relief after Iggy’s departure. The front office believes in the players on this roster and are going to allow this core to continue to develop together. Iguodala was only with the team for one season, therefore he may not have been in their long-term plans from the moment they acquired him.

    • Charliemyboy

      I can understand your emotions. All I’m saying is I’m disappointed in the way management has handled this situation. I know Masai is gone but man did he leave a legacy. What is wrong with not examining his process then? He was proactive; he took the Melo thing and made us winners! He was aggressive and understood human nature. On the onset it appears that Josh has failed. He should have known Masai was going, let Karl know what he planned if Karl didn’t play McGee or didn’t advance so the writing would have been on the wall. Karl’s stubbornness is also to blame. Bud Josh did the same thing you are accusing Iggy of doing. The only thing is, Iggy was coveted, regardless of your opinion. He made an average of 8 points difference per 100 points against competition which is elite. Why was he #3 FA? Josh should have targeted someone else 30 days ago. Why would Iggy stay in disarray? Would you? The one caveat is that just maybe Nuggets management has enough faith in the current configuration to not require a major change. We did fine w/o Iggy and the team will be a year older. So I’ve calmed down a little. I just don’t like to lose. We project ourselves on our team.

      • Robin GRAVES

        It’s a blessing in disguise.
        Some day.. Andre “Iggy” Iguodala..
        will be the Andre Miller albatross around
        some team’s neck.
        Reason? He gets so much irrational love
        and credit for all these “intangibles”.
        He’s not rated fairly and objectively.

        Depending on how this front office plays it’s cards
        right now until we get the season underway..
        It’s potentially the best off-season transition
        in Nuggets history. People may laugh and not
        see any truth or potential in this.. but we can very
        much go in the right direction now.

        One more completely asinine notion..
        that one player can single-handedly bring that
        much of a difference, in his 30 or so minutes a
        game, when there are five players on each team
        going for 48 minutes. Just another of the many
        ways.. people blindly in love over-rate that jerk.