Denver Nuggets free agency: Curing the Iguodala hangover

Friday evening it was announced that Andre Iguodala would be turning down a bigger contract offer from the Denver Nuggets and would instead sign with the team that put an end to Denver’s 2012-13 campaign. What now lies ahead for the reformed front-office of the Nuggets is a whole lot of uncertainty.

Some anti-Dre Nuggets fans seem to think Denver will be just fine without Iguodala and that replacing him will be a simple task, citing Iggy’s poor shooting as a major detriment to the team. While Iguodala might not be a good shooter, make no mistake, finding someone who can fill his shoes will be no picnic.

Part of the problem is the Nuggets were going all in on their chances to retain Iguodala, and now quite a few players that would have been decent fits have already signed with other teams.

J.J. Redick would have been a fantastic piece for the Nuggets to have for a multitude of reasons. Paul Millsap just signed with the Hawks and could have added another dimension to Denver’s offense while possibly allowing the team to utilize Kenneth Faried as a sixth man, or even package him with Andre Miller and use him as trade bait before he’s due for a big extension.

Mike Dunleavy, Tony Allen, Kevin Martin, Kyle Korver, O.J. Mayo — while not all those guys would be amazing fits with the Nuggets, they would still be interesting options to explore and all have one thing in common: They’re off the market.

There are still some decent free agents around, but the Nuggets don’t have much wiggle room. Tom, our very own “capologist” here at Roundball Mining Company, outlined Denver’s free agency limitations here and also explained the current situation in our e-mail chains:

The long version: counting Quincy Miller, Denver has 11 players under contract for $52.1 million. With a projected cap of $58.6 million, that’s a gap of $6.5 million — but the minimum roster size is 13, so at least one more rookie minimum deal would have to come out of that amount, leaving about $6.0 million to sign a single free agent. And that could only happen if Denver renounced the rights to Mozgov and Brewer, and renounced the MLE and LLE. The much more likely scenario is that Denver holds onto Moz using bird rights, and then uses the MLE of $5.15 million and the LLE of $2.02 million and minimum-salary exceptions to fill out the roster to 13-15 players.

Translation: The Nuggets are pretty screwed. Iguodala’s departure leaves a huge hole to fill but doesn’t create cap flexibility to actually pay for a decent replacement. The situation is far from ideal, but the Nuggets still need to bring in someone this summer. Here are a couple of available players the Nuggets could look at.

Monta Ellis (gulp)

It has been rumored, especially now that Iguodala’s gone, that there is mutual interest between Ellis and the Nuggets. Personally, I hate this idea. Inserting Ellis into the starting lineup and expecting him to fill Iguodala’s vacancy would only lead to disaster — on both ends of the floor.

Not only would the trigger-happy guard (who, by the way, shot even worse than Iggy last season) jack up a lot of inefficient looks, he would also take away a lot of possessions from Ty Lawson. While Ellis can be a decent playmaker — which is exactly what Iguodala was when he took care of the ball-handling duties — he will often make the decision to shoot a fadeaway jumper rather than pass to an open teammate.

Ellis would not solve the spacing issues Denver has and would make the team’s offense more isolation-based, which is the last thing the Nuggets need. And while we all love guys who can create looks for themselves, when those players make the offense stagnant and solely reliant on long, contested jumpers, they’re no longer beneficial to the team. Denver would be smart to stay away from Monta.

Jarrett Jack

With Iguodala joining Golden State, Jack will be available for business. Should the Nuggets try and provide refuge to the rejected Warrior? Last season Jack made a decent case for himself in the race for the Sixth Man of the Year, and, having the ability to play on and off the ball, was a great complement to Steph Curry.

Jack actually does give the Nuggets a decent guard who is versatile and can be used in a half-court offense. But my biggest reservation with Jack is his perpetual affection with off-the-dribble mid-range jumpers, which he loves to jack up (no pun intended) far too often. Just over 30 percent of Jack’s shot attempts last season came in the mid-range area, and while he is an above-average shooter from that range, it’s not a great habit to have. Jack is also a pretty bad finisher at the rim, which further encourages him to shoot more.

Andrei Kirilenko

The Spurs are reportedly interested in the Russian forward, but I wouldn’t mind seeing the Nuggets pursue AK-47.

Kirilenko is versatile and plays on both ends of the floor. He might not be as quick and athletic as Iguodala but he has long arms and can still do as good of a defensive job against most wings, especially when using his length to effectively close out shooters.

There are still some hindrances here though. First of all, adding Kirilenko doesn’t directly plug the hole at shooting guard, and only further crowds an already deep frontcourt. The way I see it, the Nuggets would have two options to go with if they added Kirilenko:

1. Let him come off the bench behind Danilo Gallinari.

2. Focus on small-ball and start Danilo Gallinari at the four, having Faried either come off the bench or explore what his market value is for potential trades.

Personally, I’m not entirely opposed to the second option, but landing Kirilenko wouldn’t be easy. Considering his age, he’s likely looking for one last big contract, which is probably more money than the Nuggets would be offering. Additionally, the Nuggets love Faried, and the franchise seems to be heading in a direction where Brian Shaw would rather allow guys like Faried, JaVale McGee and Evan Fournier big minutes in order to improve, rather than adding a veteran forward that would hamper their development. Kirilenko doesn’t really solve the spacing issue, either.

Carl Landry

If we cerebrate along the premise of Fournier starting next season, adding Landry wouldn’t be too bad of an option. In a lot of ways, Landry is a poor man’s Paul Millsap. He loves operating out of the post and is quite versatile down low. He is strong, which makes him hard to effectively front, and can also face up and either drive past his defender or pull up for a jumper. As we all know, the Nuggets currently have zero post-up threats, so signing Landry would make sense as he could also play a similar sixth man role for Denver which he has grown used to over the course of his career.

The Remains

It would seem that the Nuggets are inclined to get Ellis, but if Tim Connelly and Co. are able to steer away from the iceberg the better option could be to allow Fournier to start at the two-guard spot, perhaps try to keep Corey Brewer and just add veteran shooters who can earn a spot in the rotation. The Nuggets have already missed out on some of the top free-agent targets, so rather than opting for a mediocre solution Denver might as well sacrifice some games and see what they can mold their young players into.

Guys like Randy Foye, Gary Neal and Francisco Garcia are all available and could merely be used for some additional scoring off the bench and spacing.

Basically, the remaining market is thin right now, especially with the limited amount of money the Nuggets can spend. Losing Iguodala hurts a lot and you can’t really replace his value and importance with anyone currently available.

But while the free-agent market is somewhat depressing, it’s not like Denver’s hands are completely tied. The remnants of what Masai Ujiri built are still there. The Nuggets still have a deep roster with a lot of really talented players that could potentially be used as trade bait somewhere down the road. And yet, one thing is certain: Denver is definitely not done making roster changes this season, whether it involves free-agent signings or trades.

Who would you like the Nuggets to sign? Share your thoughts/frustrations/suggestions in the comments section below.

You can follow me on Twitter: @VytisLasaitis

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  • Haig

    If the FO signs Ellis, they’ll have crossed all the t’s of a craptastic offseason

    • Thomas

      What we need is to find out what our young player’s ceiling is. Ty (w/o Miller), Faried, Javale, Hamilton, Fournier, Green.

      This is what the FO is doing. They probably believe some of these will turn out into very good players – if it turns out that way they will also develop team chemistry while doing it.

      Getting players in free agency would get in the way of this movement. We don’t need complementary players at this point – what would they complement, a work in progress?

      Patience. We got rid of GK, soon Miller will be out and our young guys will get minutes. It would be inconsistent to ask for more at this point.

      Let’s see what Faried can do with 32+ minutes a game. Let’s see what Hamilton can do without having to worry about GK sitting him out after one mistake. Same w Javale. Let’s see how Shaw directs our defensive effort. Let’s see if they practice FTs.

      I am looking forward to watching.

  • Brit

    Gary Neal would be a great pickup, . . either to take all of Andre Miller’s minutes at the backup point, or to just stand on the wing and shoot 3’s off of penetration. It probably depends on what kind of offense we run. I like Landry too, just for bench play since Ill Will is probably starting at least for a while, we’ll need some punch off the bench. I’m not sure what Monta Ellis helps/solves. . .we’d have two diminuitive guards with he and Ty, so we probably couldn’t play them together. If he could just stand there and shoot, ala Neal, then we’re talking, . . .but I doubt it. Let’s go after Neal and Garcia for defensive emergencies and call it good waiting for Gallo to come back.

    • Erlingur Grétar Einarsson

      The thing is, it’s silly to pay a guy Ellis’ money to stand and shoot, so for me he’s a big no for every possible reason.

    • herpderpnuggets

      i also think garcia would be a good option, really help with the 3 point shooting, maybe even delfino. neal would also be good too. we just need to make up for the defense and playmaking. ty is gonna have to take the reigns on this team for good this year and become the leader we all hope he can be

      • LBJ

        Garcia resigned with Rockets.

        • herpderpnuggets

          well….

  • Brit

    I’m not sure how we can blame Kroenke/Connely for the AI situation. They offered him MORE. He obviously didn’t want to be here, and didn’t want to play for Shaw. He got enamored (did you read his disgusting interview) with their club during the playoffs. Heck, maybe he should’ve gone WWE and just switched jerseys during the game. At any rate, . . seems like he didn’t want to come back, since he left 12 mil. on the table. That’s not Kroenke’s fault, and the Walmart jokes need to stop. I repeat WE OFFERED MORE.

    • airvaid

      It’s not about money. One organization was trading down in the draft and trading away starting centers for backups and not doing anything to get better.

      The other organization was trading up and aggressively trying to get better and not sitting on it’s arse.

      • ryan cordova

        Koufos wasn’t a starting quality center, sorry. He’s a serviceable back-up, but he was only the starter because King George didn’t want to deal with Javale’s mistakes.

        And oh no’s, we traded down from the 27th pick, because so many players from 27-30 end up being starter quality players, right?

        • airvaid

          Koufos was doing a better job than Koufos. Established players like Iguodala don’t wanna play with a team that would rather live with JaVale’s mistakes over winning.

          And please tell me what did the Nuggets do to get better over the offseason? Why should Iggy choose the Nuggets over a more ambitious GSW team?

          Drafting at 46 is somehow better than drafting at 27? Trading away an established, dependable player for an injury prone back up is supposed to convince a player to come back to Denver?

          • ryan cordova

            Did I say the Nuggets got better? Did I say Iggy should have stayed with them?

            Nope, I said Koufos was garbage.

            “Drafting at 46 is somehow better than drafting at 27?”

            If you’re clearing space to sign players, yes, obviously. Who do you pay more money to, a first round pick who’ll never see the floor, or a d-league player who’ll never see the floor?

            “Trading away an established, dependable player for an injury prone back up is supposed to convince a player to come back to Denver?”

            How exactly did Koufos’ dependability work in the playoffs?

            I remember him disappearing against the Lakers, and I remember him getting benched in both series, so how exactly would keeping Koufos have convinced Iguodala to stay?

            In fact, what move would you have proposed the FO have done differently? Keep Koufos and play him over McGee, obviously?

            Keep a coach that he had known issues with? Ignore hiring a rising star coach who Iggy was known to love and spoke greatly about?

      • Robin GRAVES

        one organization was planning everything around somebody who never had any intention of playing for them, and let all the other FA get swooped up for more leverage.

        GOD. How can any fan hate himself and his team enough to not see what one asshole did. Iguodala is a jerk. Quit being a sucker.

    • Charliemyboy

      Excellent management means three things: (1) knowing your employees, including their dreams and inclinations (they read Iggy incorrectly); (2) knowing how to blend strengths and minimize weaknesses, (they got rid of KK’s contributions and went down hill) and (3); being proactive to influences in the direction, to pre-empt negative outcomes and synergize potentials (they think they can sit and wait, and are being chewed up). Josh hasn’t shown this yet. He is letting things get away instead of being pro-active. The moves made, getting rid of Karl and KK, without a game plan in place, show lack of leadership and vision. They are not visionary like Masai. Even if he is gone they should think like he did: before the house caves, make the right move. Why such ineptness around millions and millions of dollars. Now they have to fall heavy on an unsure outcome with Ellis? Can they learn?

      • Brit

        how did Kronk sit still and “let things get away”? He offered Iggy 60 mil?

        • airvaid

          By not improving the team. Iggy chose the better project over money.

        • LBJ

          NBA players that want to win (Iggy) get concerned when a team can’t retain the executive of the year and coach of the year. Combine that with a snot-nosed punk of an owner (whose sole accomplishment is inheriting a lot of money) that claims he is going to be involved in all player personnel decisions – and you see the result. We get FAs like Monta Ellis that could care less about winning.

          • David Tesler

            Kroenke needs to go bankrupt and the fastest way to that is to manage (incompentently) a NBA team.

            I heard that Papa Stan’s favorite team, the Arsenals are in financial trouble and the minority owners are ready to rebel against Kroenke – like a hostile takeover from a bad owner.

            I just hope the Kroenkes enjoys what’s left of their Walmart (once it goes bankrupt, it’ll never emerge from it ever again)

        • Charliemyboy

          Iggy said he liked the culture at Golden State. What did he not like about the culture at Denver? What is Josh going to do about it. His management is too green.

      • Jordan

        Why do you think KK was so good!? HE IS AWFUL AND ONLY PLAYED BECAUSE GEORGE WAS AN IDIOT AND WOULDN’T PLAY JAVALE OVER HIM! I don’t get why and so many others are so upset by that trade he looked like a god damn lost puppy during the playoffs it was EMBARASSING. Josh is trying to be proactive? It’s not his fault that iggy went back on his word and now wants to play for a championship team? If your that upset about the Koufoa trade then I’m wondering what the hell you were watching last season cause I couldn’t even watch some games with how bad he is. Arthur is a lot better than most of you think also. Has a really good mid range game and his rebounding numbers are misleading. Please stop complaining about the KK trade and the Karl firing it was time for a change.

        • Charliemyboy

          We’ll see. Time for a change is right. We might hit 40 wins. Talk to me this time next year when I told you so. Hope I’m wrong, but facts and experts concur.

          • Sean

            Appealing to the authority of the “experts” doesn’t really help your argument much. How often have they been right about non-obvious points??

      • David Tesler

        All of this are very good, and more justification to have the entire Denver Nation make their feelings known to Kroenke that he cannot be trusted to manage a NBA franchise and needs to f-off, and sell the Avalanche too. He also owns it, and it’s ruined.

    • David Tesler

      AI saw what Kroenke did to the team, Ujiri and Karl.

      Fuck it. AI decides to leave, and all blame goes squarely at Kroenke for the lack of continuity. If there was a SEMBLANCE of continuity, then AI would have signed a long term contract with Denver.

      So therefore, Josh Kroenke can’t own the team and will only sell it when it’s a smoking ruins that no-one wants.

  • Chris Nicholas

    I think Erick Green is likely to produce Ellis like numbers give the opportunity.

    • Chain Breaker

      I agree! I think Nuggets should either grab the last Big free agent in Josh Smith or play with what we got! Erick Green potentially could be Ellis-esque!

      • herpderpnuggets

        i still think the nuggets could fill out the roster with maybe some veterans or shooters…it will be fun to see what green can do in the summer league

    • Charliemyboy

      It would be great, but that is the exception rather than the rule for a low pick. Extremely rare (Faried and exception).

  • MacKenzie Pantoja

    I pray, and I mean pray, that if we do sign Ellis, Brian Shaw will have the sense to use him as a 6th man (where Ellis would excel) and let Fournier be the starter, though maybe not give him starters minutes. Given each of them 24 minutes a game. On the one hand, I don’t want Ellis taking possessions Ty Lawson and most of other starters. However, while Chandler is in the starting lineup, we could use a little bit of scoring punch off the bench. I can stomach the idea of him as a 6th man

  • monimo

    I agree, Monta would be a terrible choice. I like Kirilenko, Jack and Landry but we know their potential, so it would be just a solid move, nothing more. I would take some risks and look for a cheap SG in Europe, the way the Knicks did with Prigioni. An idea would be to pick up Luigi Datome, last year’s MVP of the italian league. He is athletic and an excellent 3-point shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAXgIhiPswQ. It seems that the Celtics are interested to sign him for a minimal contract … but perhaps he would prefer to play in Denver with his buddy Gallo. It would not solve all problems, but it is an interesting option from the bench and perhaps more. Outside of Datome, I’m sure there are a lot of interesting SG (even veterans) in Europe.

  • Qmill30

    I like Monta but more if he was an addition to Iggy rather than a replacement. We should probs stay clear mostly because we would be locking ourselves into a mediocre team.

    Would have liked Tyreke Evans as a replacement but he’s gone. And even…OJ Mayo wouldn’t have been terrible because of age and potential but he’s also gone.

    I think we should sign Gary Neal. I like what he brings to the team but also give the opportunity to develop our youngsters. I think it’s unfortunate but this might just have to be a transition year. Let’s see what we have in McGee, Fournier, Hamilton, Q Mill, Erick Green etc. We won’t be in contention for Wiggins or anything but at least we’ll have more clarity on what this team is. And if something comes up at the deadline, great, but I think we need to let the market come to us rather than reaching in desperation.

    Another option that would never happen is signing Greg Oden for a one year deal at $6 mil. We aren’t going to compete for a championship this year so why not take a low risk high reward option. If he plays well or plays at all we have the inside track to resign him and if he doesn’t then he is an expiring contract anyway. With out decent depth he could be a good fit in terms of the pressure on him.

  • EWilson

    I’m with the general assessment that the Nuggets shouldn’t sign anyone except to a low-budget, one-year deal. We can’t get anyone who will make a real difference, and there’s no reason to be pushed right against the cap to add mediocrity. Let’s see what we have among the younger guys. Plus, when the trade deadline comes along mid-season, it’s very likely there will be a market for Miller at the very least. If we can clear some cap space then, perhaps, we can find someone more useful in FA next year.

  • Andrew

    Please please please stop suggesting to trade Faried…

  • Chain Breaker

    Josh Smith! His offensive play fits the bill! Defensively he is a monster! Start him at the 4, Bring Faried off the bench!

    • dynamo.joe

      Spoken like someone who gets all there basketball information from SportsCenters top 10.

      • Chain Breaker

        I definitely respect and appreciate your response. However, I must inform you that this isn’t based upon espn in anyway! Josh Smith would have fit perfectly, sources say Smith Signed with Detroit, Faried and McGee aren’t a good duo at the 4-5, being that they aren’t natural scorers. So Smith would bring Faried like Rebounding and Defense with a better offensive game!

        • dynamo.joe

          Sorry, that was a dick move on my part. But I think what Smith brings is a lot of bad mid-range shots, a bunch of missed 3’s and the occasional highlight dunk. In my opinion he is a phenomenal athlete, but a poor basketball player. Like way too many bigs in the NBA he wants desperately to be a wing.

  • AK

    Could someone explain how the cap works? So we have a cap of 58.5, but I thought you could go over it to the 71$ mill luxury tax? So why couldn’t a team just sign multiple players until they get to the 71$ million?

    • TomRMC

      A team can go over the cap, and even over the tax line, but only by using “cap exceptions”. Exceptions can be used for specific players at specific times.

      For example, the Nuggets had the “Bird Rights” exception for Iguodala, Mozgov, and Brewer. This means the team could have gone over the cap to sign any of those guys to a max contract (just a hypothetical; nobody is going to max out Brewer.) But the Nuggets can’t offer a max contract to Josh Smith, Dwight Howard, or other free agents because they don’t have cap exceptions for them.

      Teams that are over the cap but under the tax also have the “midlevel exception”, which allows signing one player for a league-average salary, and the “bi-annual exception”, which is a little less than half of the midlevel and can only be used once every other year.

    • David Tesler

      And why does the luxury tax even exist? Let the NBA go over $100 million in budget for 15 people. Two players can have no more than 23 million/year.

      Kroenke is a notorious tightwad, so forget it. Selling the Nuggets team to a _REAL_ loyal Denver billionaire would be an option.

  • John Kobbeman

    I would go Wayne Ellington or Anthony Morrow way before Ellis. That was one of the issues with Andre was that everybody wanted to slash, and no one could comfortably stay outside and shoot. Morrow would be that legit threat at the 3 pt. line that we are missing.

    • David Acker

      Morrow would be a good choice at the 2. Shoot over 40% career from three. I don’t know much about his D though. Gary Neal would be a good addition as well.

      • Ryan

        You don’t know much about his D because it’s non-existent. Not opposed to signing him for cheap though, improving perimeter shooting should be priority #1 this offseason…

  • tytechortz

    Don’t sign anyone that would take away from the development of the youth. This is the perfect season to evaluate all the diaper dandies, which Karl didn’t do. It could still be an interesting season, probably make the playoffs still. Then next year, Shaw knows exactly what kind of pieces to add to take the team to the next level, Billups joins the staff, and Galo is back to full speed.

    I almost look forward to this season. It’s not often a team gets a chance to season its young players who need it without the team going into complete rebuild mode. And you get to see if your coach can develop young talent.

    • herpderpnuggets

      we will probably make the playoffs like you said, but we may be at a 7 or 8 seed. I just hope ty doesnt get pissed at all the playoff failures and bolt, because he is essential to the nuggets this year

      • Ryan

        He can’t bolt, he just signed an extension last year. I don’t think he’s the type to demand a trade either, not to mention he doesn’t quite have the credentials yet to pull that card. If anything, I think Ty will enjoy being able to FINALLY take control as leader of this team and not have to worry about sharing the court with the dreadful Andre Miller. I have to hope that if Miller isn’t traded, Shaw will use him in a sensible 10-15 minutes/game role when Ty is on the bench…

  • Jazz

    Nugget nation! did I miss something, Ellis was a 20 pt and 6 ast player. Other then his defense, what made AI a perfect fit. He had no jumper, Turnover machine, could not shot free throws well and did not want to be in Denver. Don’t forget who was the mole that spoke with Jackon in the playoffs. AI was what he was a role player who never should have been an Olympian anyway(Rudy Gay). Don’t get it twisted, I like AI but, I am a Nugget fan first. Josh Smith would be good. What is with the Ellis bashing. Last thing BTW, what system is Coach Shaw going to use anyway. You don’t know, right, So stop with the BS and give Shaw and Ellis a shot then we can give our opinion, Go Nuggetsssssssssssssss!

    • MacKenzie Pantoja

      The reason why Ellis is a 20 and 6 guy is that he never met a shot he didn’t like. High volume, middling efficiency scorers that play terrible defense make ideal 6th men, but below average starters

    • Mikey K

      Um, we want to develop the guys we have. We hired Brian Shaw for this reason specifically. Why bring a guy that takes all the shots and would slow that development? I’d rather bring in no one and let’s see what we have than waste money the team really doesn’t have on a guy that is a ball hog?

    • David Acker

      Ellis is a good scorer not a good shooter. His D is questionable as well. Our needs are on D and good three point shooters. That’s what this roster are missing. In my opinion the Nuggets should sign Neal, Morrow or someone similar and then stand pat and see what Evan can bring to the table.

  • ny nugs fan

    of all the fa’s mentioned above only tony allen and oj mayo are even worth the effort; the rest of the bunch are big time scrubs

    as for the guys left over i could see thenugs going after carl landry

    otherwise i still like this roster; iguodala was a nice player but man did he suck from the ft line

  • disqus_dqCdNE3KZO

    what about nick young no one has talked about him

    • dynamo.joe

      Nick Young is an average scorer who doesn’t turn the ball over too much. He does nothing else, but that may make him worth a minimum contract. He should be picking up garbage time minutes for an NBA team or as a real contributor in Europe/Asia.

      Consider the talked about Nick Young box checked off.

  • Wood

    Ok…it wasn’t my first choice but if the plan (fingers crossed) is to make this a developmental year, getting something out of a loaded draft and loaded free agent class next year then I can live with it. At least its a plan and shows some long term thinking and patience
    But….
    If Kroenkally goes out and commits real money past this year on Monta Ellis etc. then we as fans are screwed long term.
    And..
    Since they were willing to offer Iggy more money than the Warriors and since Iggy, who by all accounts has his head on right, decided to pass I am terrified that door #2 is on the horizon.

  • Sweaty Feast

    Ellis NO! Kirilenko Yes! Trade Faried No! Trade Miller Yes! Lawson is a budding star. Gallo will be back mid-season. WC can fill that void (as long as it’s not the playoffs). Losing AI hurts, but the Nuggets are deep and not dead yet. We need a 3 & D guy. Brewer can walk because he does neither.

  • heykyleinsf

    I am feeling good today, and not nearly as broken up about this as other people. I think what Iguodala did was dirty and to me, speaks volumes about what kind of person he is. He could have been honest. He wasn’t. He hijacked us, went to the enemy after stringing us along and while we watched so many other options disappear. It was downright shitty of him. I think he revealed a lot, and we dodged a bullet.

    I’m not really excited about what’s left. I just hope we don’t overcompensate and land someone for the long term who won’t be the answer.
    What I am excited about is what we have, which is still the best depth in the NBA. This is a young exciting team, and I personally didn’t see Iguodala as all that. Granted, he is an elite defender, but this is Ty Lawson’s team. I love that Ty is the man again (always was for me). I believe in Lawson far more than Iguodala, and love that we can now build for the long term.

    I’m sorry, but don’t count me among the broken-hearted.

    • dynamo.joe

      Depth? We have 1 Center (JaVale), 1 PF (Faried), 1 SF (Chandler, until Gallo proves he can make it all the way back), 0 SG, 2 PG (Ty and Miller).

      Other than that we have a GF (Hamilton) who MAY be a starting caliber NBA player and a rookie combo guard who showed improvement over the course of the season.

      • Robin GRAVES

        Please. Everyone said Koufos was useless.. and we helped our depth with Darrell Arthur. But when Iguodala goes, whooaaa.. we just lost everyone. He’s one player. And an asshole one at that. Aren’t you just a little pissed off at HIM?? Why are you totally taking it out on the franchise?

        • dynamo.joe

          IMO the franchise has made a series of bad decisions. Eventually, bad decisions lead to bad outcomes. If you are Iggy, why tie yourself to those bad decisions for the next 4 years?

          We know Iggy brought up/discussed (with Karl) using Stone in late game situations when stops were needed. Apparently Iggy thought Stone was pretty good. The Nuggets let him walk for nothing. K2 was our best interior defender. They let him go for less than nothing. Due to no fault of the FO, the Nuggets lost another of their best perimeter defenders for a significant portion of next season.

          The Nuggets have been giving a lot of lip service to defense and then losing the players who could implement it.

          When a company says one thing with its mouth and the opposite thing with its actions, it’s probably time to walk away from that company.

          • Robin GRAVES

            Yeah.. the worst decision was trusting Iguodala.
            Dude.. they did everything under the sun to accommodate and please him. You loathe yourself if you don’t find any fault with the asshole that was dishonest. Iguodala.
            Every bad decision, as you put it.. was to please the asshole that burned us.

            • dynamo.joe

              Well, obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but I think Iguodala got paid a lot of money and played well for that money. It’s all even.

              If a barista at your local starbucks finally gets that teaching job she has been looking for she doesn’t owe any loyalty to starbucks for giving her a job or to you just because she was your favorite.

              • Robin GRAVES

                I think it’s disgusting that you equate the plight of a minimum wage slave to an entitled $12M a year jerk who dribbles a basketball (and shoots airballs at the FT line).

              • dynamo.joe

                Sure, you think its disgusting, but you’re clearly unbalanced.

              • Robin GRAVES

                said the guy who thinks working at Starbucks is the same as being a world famous millionaire basketball player.
                Ooooh Keeyyy..

        • dynamo.joe

          When a company says one thing and does the opposite, it’s time to walk away from that company. I think that’s what Iggy saw and decided to walk away even though the Nuggets offered extra money.

          • Robin GRAVES

            Go cheer for Golden State.
            Buh bye.
            Follow your leader, and be just like a Tebow zealot.

            • dynamo.joe

              If I was gonna switch and bandwagon some other team I would be more likely to jump to Memphis or Toronto. Instead I think I’ll stay here and hope we don’t lose Kenneth to front office stupidity.

      • Ryan

        You’re forgetting they’re going to pay Mozgov more than it would cost to simply keep Koufos. Brilliant. Also, there’s Quincy Miller (maybe), Anthony Randolph, and “Dreadful” Darrell Arthur… In other words, your analysis is correct….

  • Len Nunes

    Does the site have a poll feature? If you were the Nuggs GM would you
    a) sign a guy like Ellis and slow down the “diaper dandy” growing process
    b) surround the youngsters with a couple of one year vets
    c) we all know McGee is being handed minutes, sit back and watch Hamilton & Fournier grow into minutes as well.
    One more question: what’s the point of Anthony Randolph?

    • heykyleinsf

      C.
      I think Randolph was another undiscussed reason why George Karl is gone. IDK about you, but I was totally impressed (and a little infuriated that he wasn’t used more).

    • Eric Wolf

      Answer: C

      No free agents are going to push the Nugs over the top to be champions at this point. Let’s see what the young guys got.

    • Mikey K

      C. Sink or swim with the guys we have. There are worse years to “rebuild”…

    • David Acker

      C
      I would say that McGee has earned his minutes. I think the plan is too see what we have in Fournier and Hamilton in that order. I also believe that it was easy to let KK go because you still have MozGov and Randolph. The dude is 6’11” and at least has a low post game and can give you 10-15 mins per game at the 4 or 5. I would still like to see Neal or Morrow added as insurance and not that expensive either

      • Ryan

        Problem is, Randolph is a stretch 4 that can’t shoot, which makes him, well, I don’t know what… Too frail to defend inside, gets pushed around in the post on offense. I’m fine with him playing some mop-up duty, but don’t really see how he would help us win games…

    • Ryan

      I would got with B, it worked okay for the Hawks last year, they’re about as close to a match as the Nuggets this year.
      As for Randolph, he’s filler. A head case with potential, but never really learned how to play basketball. You’ll find them littered throughout the league…

  • Duane Grasmick

    I want to see what Q. Miller, Hamilton and Fournier have to offer this team. I think Lawson, Chandler and Faried can keep us competitive until Gallo gets back unless the NBA screws us with that road heavy schedule again at the beginning of the year.

    • heykyleinsf

      I like that thinking. I also have a fantasy. We sneak in to the playoffs and break Golden State’s heart.

      • LBJ

        Fantasy is a good description. Reality is we find out the reason(s) why Karl didn’t play Q Miller, J Ham, Randolph, McGoof more.

        • Duane Grasmick

          Karl didn’t play them because he prefers vets over youth. He was overly stubborn with that thinking

          • LBJ

            McGoof is older than KK. Randolph is on his 4th NBA team, so the rest of his coaches preferred vets too?

            • Duane Grasmick

              I didn’t talk about McGee or Randolph…I talked about Q. Miller, Hamilton and Fournier

        • Mikey K

          This is the fundamental place you and I disagree over this team and George Karl. He doesn’t, and has never in his career, play young unproven guys or rookies.

          With vets and other good talent not liking Karl, Masai was left with drafting talent. It spent the last couple seasons rotting on the bench because Karl and the FO fought about it. Masai traded Nene just to get Faried on the court. The FO was giving him crap about Andre Miller’s minutes while Fournier and Q Miller sat. If they do nothing else, dumping Andre Miller for a sack of old basketballs will make this a successful off-season. We HAVE to know what we have. If it goes to hell, there’s a loaded draft at the end of the road.

          It’s too late to go get someone. It’s pretty much unanimous that no one here at RMC wants Ellis, fan or writer. Play it out and let Shaw develop them; remember that’s his supposed strength.

          • LBJ

            I agree with several of you points.

            1. There is no FA worth signing (unless we get a real short term deal. EllIs would take PT from Fournier and give us 2 small guards on D.

            2. I agree Karl played Andre too many minutes – at the expense of Fournier. We should have seen something more like the Spurs and Heat handle their old guys in the regular season.

            In Karl’s defense, we didn’t have the luxury of having our playoff spot locked up like those teams did either.

        • Robin GRAVES

          Have you ever once posted one thing that wasn’t emo?
          You’re all “oh the world is over and it sucked from day one”.

          • LBJ

            Robin the racist makes an appearance on this thread!!!!

            Why don’t you post something relevant to basketball?

            You can at least finish your point on the last thread and tell us what level of compensation is adequate to afford a sufficient number of “benzes and hoes.”

            • Robin GRAVES

              IDK how “racist” comes from “ho”. It’s language. Pretty universal and being that there are working women of all ethnicities and johns of the same and the oldest profession in the world. You would be the racist sweetheart. You were the one that inferred only African American people have that word in their culture. What.. are all hip hop artists racists and black? You’re a clown. And the racist who is culturally locked in to stereotypes. I made no mention of it.. it’s your landlocked small town sheltered-boy obsession.

              • LBJ

                You claimed Iggy’s didn’t need the salary he was asking for “because how many hoes does he need?”

                Keep digging you racist POS….

              • LBJ

                You still have “enlightened” us on the hoe salary threshold.

              • Robin GRAVES

                no sweetheart.. you handpicked that out. The full sentence was several things.. Benzes and hoes in general.. money. You are the one hateful, desperate and nasty with the name calling. And you were the one inferring that only black people want money or hoes or benzes.. I’m going to leave you and all this with one more thing.. because you’re just a depressing person.

                I was right about Iguodala.
                You can go back to your issues and tissues now.

              • LBJ

                I notice you never said Josh should just pay him the max because his Walmart inheritance provides him with an adequate number of benzes and hoes.

                Hmmm…… I wonder why????

              • Robin GRAVES

                goodbye dude.
                go try to depress someone else.
                Buh bye.

            • Robin GRAVES

              I talked basketball throughout my crossings with you. It’s your insistence on stereotypes and namecalling.. your inferences and judgements.. and just a little bit of therapeutic advice.. it’s your tunnel vision that has your attitude so negative and hopeless and judgemental. You judge and label.. not me. “Ho” is universal language. You’re the one who insists on it being a black thing. The truth is.. it’s in every country, every race and has been from the beginning of time. Get out of landlocked hicktown.. see the world. It will make you more positive.

              • LBJ

                Maybe you should help the owners negotiate the next CBA. You could tell the players the max salary should be dropped to your “hoe threshold”.

                I wonder if they would think that was racist?

              • Robin GRAVES

                BA!BA!BA!BA!BA! you’re boring me.
                Anyone who doesn’t agree with me is a &(*$(#(^# racist!

              • LBJ

                No. Just ones that make racist statements.

                You comprise the entirety of that category.

              • Robin GRAVES

                LOL!! sure dude.. whatevs.

        • Ryan

          I bet we don’t find out why Andre Miller played so much last year at least…

      • Duane Grasmick

        Golden State got hot at the right time last year. They still have some fundamental flaws and I wouldn’t consider them better than a 5 or 6 seed in the west

        • LBJ

          Fundamental flaws??? They will start the season better than the Nugs at all 5 starting positions. With Barnes coming off the bench, they are better than at 6th man also.

          • Duane Grasmick

            Yeah…fundamental flaws…they are not great defensively, they don’t have a great post-up game and their bigs are not anything special. When Denver went big in the playoffs that lineup hurt them, the problem is Karl never went to it enough. Plus, their best player is injury prone and those ankles aren’t going to get any better. They have flaws.

            • LBJ

              No team is perfect, but if they have “flaws” – we have gaping holes! They just took our best defensive player. Their bigs kicked the hell out of our bigs in the playoffs – with Lee injured.

              I’m sure Curry’s ankles are a concern, but any player an get hurt – as we found out with Gallo.

            • David Acker

              Their center is injury prone as well and their depth is all gone

              • LBJ

                They aren’t done filling out their roster. But they still have Barnes, Green, Ezeli, and a 1st round euro guard off the bench. Look for them to sign a post to cover for ezeli’s injury.

              • David Acker

                Yes you are right but both Jack and Landry are starting quality. Barnes is a starter as well. What will bringing him off ht e bench do to his confidence. All I’m sayin is that they wanted Dwight and settled for Iggy which creates a logjam at the 2/3 where they were already strong plus lost some quality depth. You can’t tell me that they are as deep now, starting 5 are pretty damn good but who will back up Curry now that Jack is gone??

              • LBJ

                I guess they will find out how good their #1 pick is. The guys at the draft seemed to like him.

                Plus they can play Iggy at the point also.

              • LBJ

                Iggy or the Euro

              • Brad from Arvada

                Andre Miller/Moz + 1st rounder for Harrison Barnes/David Lee. There’s Curry’s backup, and a (kind of) post player for GS. And we put Barnes at 2 and have another quality post player.

      • David Acker

        GS has lost some depth with Jack, Landry, Jefferson, Bedrinis, Rush all gone. Iggy was a really strange signing for mine?? Who starts on this team? Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Lee, Bogut. What happens with Iggy?? They were really deep but not now, I’m not really sure if they will even be better than what they were last year. Yes AI is a good defender but the coaches nof the NBA don’t put him on the first or second team??? My fantasy GS just got robbed

    • dynamo.joe

      Obviously, there is nothing wrong with hope, but QMiller was barely an average DLeague player last year. I don’t think our future lies there.

      • Mikey K

        Maybe the plan is to tank without actually coming out and saying it if that’s true?

        • dynamo.joe

          I spose that’s an apt description of every lottery teams plan.

          My problem with the tanking plan is that lottery teams don’t know how to evaluate talent, that’s why they are lottery teams. So getting a higher draft pick doesn’t really help them.

          If you luck into the #1 and if there is a transcendent talent in that draft, well even the incompetent can recognize LeBron James/ Anthony Davis/ Tim Duncan level talent.

      • LBJ

        I haven’t seen where we have guaranteed his minimum salary for next year. Maybe Joshy and Timmy aren’t excited by Q either?

        • dynamo.joe

          I read that but didn’t even consider the possibility that they would just let him walk. I assumed he would be so cheap (and young) they would keep him as a garbage time player/hope he makes the leap guy. On the other hand, I think I’m batting 0.000 on what moves this front office/Josh will make this off season, so don’t make that investment in a Qmiller jersey just yet.

  • Adam Kunce

    I love the core players we have in place, and our new coach. I can’t wait to see what happens. If we pick up a player or two, in my mind it doesn’t change things too much one way or the other. This is just going to be a wait and see what happens kind of season. Like Donald Rumsfeld said, “There are known’s and unknowns.”

  • Isoc Von Tronstein

    Find a way to get rid of Andre Miller, maybe along with Anthony Randolph or Jordan Hamilton since they would be a lot easier to move, try and get a draft pick and a guy on a rookie contract. Then sign Jarrett Jack and AK-47. Forget about Brewer but re-sign Mozgov. Jack and Ak-47 will keep the Nuggets depth and are a better combo than Ellis and Ellis.

  • Mikey K

    Well, Jack’s gone to Cleveland and Josh Smith is in Detroit.

    Sounds like Plan B-Z is to round out the roster with ball boys and court-side fans and go with what we have and pray.

    I’m good with that. Just dump Andre Miller on someone. PLEASE!!!

    • Ryan

      If nothing else, Miller will provide a good litmus test for Shaw’s coaching aptitude. If he plays Miller 10-15 minutes a game and when Lawson is not on the court, then we know he’s probably a good coach lol…

  • Dinosaur Dave

    With the departure of Iggy our SG depth looks pretty thin. Thoughts on a trade for Oladipo and Glen Davis from Orlando. We give up McGee as the main piece. Possibly another team involved who actually needs a C gets McGee, we get Oladipo and Glen Davis, and Orlando gets someone from the other team plus picks or something. Then we can just use Mozgov and Randolph at C, with Oladipo stepping right in where Iguodala left off.

    On the flip side, McGee might turn into a beast after being traded. Then again he may not. A big risk for 10 million per season.

    • LBJ

      I’m in! Unfortunately, Orlando management would be laughing too hard to sign off on the deal!

    • Mikey K

      That deal MIGHT have worked under the old management. Not now.

  • MMZ

    I hope the FO does not get crazy here… Let the dust settle. As this article makes clear the FA options are pretty limited. No way to ME. That would be wasted money, cap space, and flexibility. Rather have Cbrew back. I think you plan on developing the young guys as many have stated, see what kind of teacher/motivator Shaw is. Given the chance many of our young guys have played well. Problem was Karl = no chance. Who would have thought Hamilton would get not even a shot at earning a role last year. He could have been a factor against GS. I’m so glad Karl is gone. It got stale. Let these guys see what they can do and make moves at the right time with more information that will come out of seeing guys play and how they gel. In the NBA you have to prey on the desperate. Asik might get dumped. Be opportunistic instead of reactive. Denver shouldn’t jump at anything right now. Our first pick in the draft might shine — fournier, hamilton, miller — one or two of those should pan out. We had a great regular season last year. It will make it a little easier to watch some games get away when the team has growing pains.

    HEY
    No worries

    • Mikey K

      I’d like to HEAR from our front office. I’d like to know that they still have a pulse. Maybe their corpses are rotting and Pepsi and that’s why we’ve done nothing this off-season? I don’t know. I want them to speak to at least one member of the media or better, a whole group of them and take questions.

  • Chris

    That draft night trade looks really stupid now.

  • googergieger

    It’s politics, kiddos. Jackson is an ultimate politician. Our situation was better for Iggy than Golden State. Their small ball only worked because Karl let it. Not to mention how will their small ball work with Iggy who can’t shoot the three with any sort of consistency? Iggy with Golden State only works if Thompson or Barnes are gone. I mean if they trade Lee and Barnes for a better two way playing four? Then yes, that team would be great. As it stands, they just talked him into going to a team that is going to have an odd man out come next season.

    Anyways I say we go after Kirelenko. Trade Chandler and Miller to open up minutes for him. Especially when Gallo comes back. Kirelenko and Gallo can guard three to four positions anyways. Seeing as Phoenix has Bledsoe now, would a trade for Dragic make any sort of sense? I mean could he conceivably play the two/back up point? How much money does he make anyways? Anywhoots, find a way to get Kirelenko and have him start at the three until Gallo gets back, and then you see if Evan is a good enough starting two or if you could somehow move Kirelenko there.

    • LBJ

      FYI – NBA teams play more than 5 guys. There will be plenty of minutes for all 6 of the guys above over 82 games.

      • googergieger

        Break down the minutes for me then.

        • LBJ

          35 minutes a game for 5 and 28 for Bogut still leaves 37 minutes for #7-10. Plus 35 minutes is probably a little high.

          • googergieger

            How many for Iggy? How many for Curry? How many for Klay? How many for Barnes? Who shares minutes with who. Their small ball worked against us because Karl let it. Iggy can’t shoot. Miami’s works in a weak conference and because they aren’t called for fouls. Tell me how that team is better than last year, how they are better than us, and who is going to play with who and what kind of style they will play.

            • LBJ

              I told you – 35 minutes for all 5 and less for Bogut. That let’s Barnes play both the 3 and 4. Their small ball worked because our bigs got outplayed by Bogut and Faried got schooled by Barnes. There small ball worked pretty good against the Spurs also.

              They are going to run – and do it well with Iggy. Iggy will be slashing to the rim and creating shots for some of the best shooters in the league.

              • googergieger

                Lee? Spurs underestimated them, Bogut was allowed to continue to be dirty, and they still didn’t break a sweat.

                Their small ball worked because Karl tried to counter with going small too. I mean see game one again. Koufos gave Bogut his confidence for the entire playoffs. Second McGee came in the game, he was in Bogut’s head and Karl once again limited him. Hell even in game five and six he limited McGee.

                Curry gets 35? Iggy 35? Klay 35? Barnes 35? Bogut 25? Lee? He backs up Bogut now? Seriously though 35? How much did they average last year? With a deeper bench? How much did Iggy average last year and for his career?

              • googergieger

                And keep in mind Denver Nugget fans should know by now, running teams and running teams alone don’t work if their isn’t consistent defense. Iggy had a lot to do with our improved D, but they don’t have anyone on that team close to Gallo good on D. So Iggy will literally be the entire defense on that team. Bogut might be able to help, I suppose. However lots of question marks there.

              • LBJ

                Do you have a reading comprehension problem???

                First you claim that there isn’t enough minutes for their top 6. When I allocate the minutes, you claim I give them too many minutes.

                Once more, Iggy takes jacks’ 30 minutes and landry’s 22 minutes can be split between Barnes, green and iggy. That leaves Ezeli 15-20. I assume their #1 pick will get 10.

                Iggy, lee, Klay and curry all averaged 35 minutes.

              • googergieger

                So Barnes is the odd man out then? So like I said, someone is going to be the odd man out on that team. Glad you effin agree. Also I never claimed you gave them too many minutes. In all honesty, I think you gave most of them too little. Curry, Klay, and Iggy will play every minute they can. Lee and Bogut are the only conditioning problems on that team. But yeah they are basically sacrificing Barne’s development for Iggy. So they aren’t going to go small ball then? Lee, Bogut, Iggy, Klay, Curry. Give Iggy the shot or send him to the line. Don’t worry about Bogut on offense either. Hmm. Not that worried about that team, honestly. Still don’t think they are a top five team in the west.

              • LBJ

                Barnes played 25 minutes per game last year. His minutes will likely increase with landry’s departure. Only by your goofy ass logic does that mean his development is being sacrificed.

                They were 6th last year without Bogut most of the year and have replaced jack with Iggy – a big time upgrade.

              • googergieger

                Right. So they won’t be going small then? He’ll guard four’s off the bench when he can barely guard three’s? Jack with Iggy eh? I follow the logic. Though seeing as he’ll start with Klay and Curry. Which again the starting line up according to you and everyone else that says they are a better team now is, Curry, Klay, Iggy, Lee, and Bogut? 38 minutes averaged by Curry last year. 35 by Klay. 36 by Lee, who doesn’t have a true four backing him up now. And I mean only reason Iggy averaged close to 35 here was because of the crazy amount of depth at the wing position we had. He’s probably going to be the main option at backing up Curry at point now right? Unless their rookie really works out. Again sport, Iggy, Curry, and Klay will probably see a lot of minutes. Probably in the 38 department. Bogut will probably see as much as he can handle. So Lee and Barnes will split the duty at the four spot now? Barnes will move from the two, three, and four spot as needed? Again, I just don’t see this team. With Iggy. Without Jack and Landry. Well, I don’t see them as anything that special. I just don’t see how it is going to work. Portland had a top heavy team like that last year. Barnes to me doesn’t seem like that strong a sixth man type to carry a bench all on his own. Again if they move Lee and Barnes for a stronger two way playing four, I could see the team working better. At least the starting line up.

              • LBJ

                D Green is a backup 4. He will be in the rotation. Barnes won’t be playing SG. We will see what their #1 pick is worth and who they get as backup C till Ezeli returns.

                Portland starters weren’t as good as GSW.

                Finally, they are better than the Nugs at all starting positions and we have no one like Barnes off the bench. To say the have not passed us is wishful thinking.

              • googergieger

                Aldridge is a better two way player than Lee. Lillard I think was a wash to Curry. Batum is easily better than Barnes. They hurt all year Matthews is a really good defender that can knock down a shot as well. I’m sorry Portland had an amazing starting line up, even with a poor defender undersized center.

                They aren’t better than us at all starting positions. A healthy Gallo alone is a better two way player than anyone on that team. Much more, lines ups have to work together. There does need to be some depth as well. Again, were you one of the people that thought the Lakers were title contenders last year? I mean I think everyone just wrote you off as a troll, but I have no way of knowing as I find most trolls forgetful, anyways…

              • LBJ

                FYI – Gallo won’t be starting for us next November.

                As far as the Blazer, Iggy is better than Baum, curry is better than lillard, Thompson is better than Mathews and Bogut is better than any C on this team.

              • googergieger

                No.

              • LBJ

                I could have sworn you were boycotting this board for a year???

              • googergieger

                Sup Theo? Oh that. You mean when I said if Karl was back, I’d be done until he is gone? Yeah what about that, Theo?

              • Michael

                “Portland starters weren’t as good as GSW.” I believe for most of, if not all, last season Portland had the highest scoring starting 5 in the league.

              • LBJ

                Probably played the most minutes also.

                So would you trade LMA, Hickson, Mathews, Batum and Lillard for Lee, Bogut, Curry, Thompson and Iggy? I suspect you would.

              • LBJ

                Barnes didn’t have much trouble guarding Faried- and Faried couldn’t guard him.

              • googergieger

                The Faried Karl didn’t want to develop a post game or ever shoot jumpers? The Faried Karl never got on to close out on shooters? Heck Karl never got on anyone to close out on shooters, which is why most of our guys were dead last in closing out to shooters in the league according to synergy. Stop trolling now. How is Barnes going to guard Randolph? Griffin? Aldridge? Heck if Faried does develop a post game this year, how is he going to guard him? Try harder.

              • LBJ

                You are truly a dumbass. I’m sure Karl told Faried not to guard Barnes or not to work on his jumper or not to work on his post game. Barnes will play limited minutes at 4 – depending on match ups. Lets see Z Bo guard Barnes. Barnes played well at the 4 against the Spurs also. How do you blame that on Karl?

                Maybe some day you will recognize that other teams have good players and that sometimes the nuggets get beat by better teams.

                Probably not – and we will be subject to your nonsensical conspiracy theories about the refs, the league office and Karl and Andre.

              • googergieger

                I didn’t say any of that, troll. You do realize you need to at least try to finese it a bit right? Clever it up some? The second enough of us, deem you a troll and either ignore you outright, or just tell the admins to get rid of you, you are done right?

                Faried and others are on record of saying they were told if they take a jumper they would sit immediately. Our guys constantly were running out at jump shooters that were wide open. Why is that? Nothing to do with Karl and his game plan huh? How did Barnes do against the Spurs? How did the guys do that he was guarding? How did the Warriors that made it to the finals do against The Spurs? Plenty of other teams are better than us. Warriors aren’t one of them.

                Get better, knob. You’re tired stupid internet knob tricks won’t work on me. Not just because I’m better than you, but well, mostly cause I’m better than you.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Googs, is it pill time?

              • googergieger

                What’s happening stalker? Oh the troll? Well he accused another dude of being a racist after the guy effectively shut him up when he brought up one of his troll points, and now he is just ignoring everything I say except for things he can twist in a fox news sort of way to give him a new “right” point to argue. I’m too old, and quite frankly too good a person to waste time with trolls like that. If he doesn’t get better, he’ll be blocked, ignored, or whatever else you want to call it. You should try harder too, stalker. Not hard to have conversation skills and defend or at least explain why you believe certain things. Very little effort involved really.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Back to hoops, Googs. I actually enjoy talking the game with you, you’ve got some good things to say — but you gotta calm down! Let LBJ be LBJ. Stay focused. Now go take a deep breath and come back and let’s discuss hoops with no more outbursts.

              • googergieger

                I don’t like trolls. Especially ones that have been banned from this site before. Theo/LBJ is blocked. I’m always calm. Zen master and all that shiznos.

              • LBJ

                Why am I not surprised you align yourself with someone who claims that Ty made less than 200k his first 2 years in the league and that Iggy shouldn’t get paid market value because he doesn’t need any more benzes and hoes?

              • LBJ

                Barnes actually did quite well against the
                Spurs (2 games with more than 25 points). Of course, you wouldn’t know that because you just blow nonsense out your ass!

                Stick with your officiating conspiracies – your area of “expertise”. Leave the basketball discussions to the rest of us.

              • googergieger

                Two games with twenty five points then? Shut down his defensive assignment as well huh? Alright then. Hey Kalen, can you do something about Theo here? Just not in the mood.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Warriors didn’t give up too much for Iggy. He will help them tremendously, and they don’t have to rely on him for the 3-ball like we did in Denver. (Clank!) Transition, transition, transition is the word in GS . . . They will miss Landry but if Bogut and Lee can stay healthy and the guards and D-up this is a top 4 or 5 team.

              • googergieger

                Lee and Bogut and transition don’t mix. Klay and Barnes are the only real athletes on that team. D up? Iggy and maybe Bogut. Who else on that team can D up? I’m sorry but the only reason this team looked like a top team last year was because of Karl doing his usual schtick in the playoffs. I’m not saying they won’t make the playoffs next year, I’m just saying I don’t see that team being a top five team in the west. We’re going to miss Iggy on this team no doubt, but mostly because we don’t have Gallo and needed Iggy’s d, rebounds, passing, and glue guyness. Again only if they move Lee and Barnes for a better two way playing four, do I see that team as a legit starting line up to be afraid of. Though even then they still have no depth, now.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Transition starts with rebounding and defense. Look for Iggy, more minutes from Draymond Green, and Bogut (if healthy) to keep GS as a top transition team. Curry/Thompson/Barnes are pretty soft, but shoot the heck out a the ball. Lee? . . . bring him to Denver. I love his game. Seriously though, GS has put together a potent starting five that every team will respect, esp. if Barnes has a breakout year and the bigs are healthy.

              • googergieger

                Yup defense. Beyond Iggy and a slow injury prone Bogut, who else on that team makes you think they are a capable defensive team? Yeah great. Same respect that got the Lakers an eighth seed they needed help from the refs to get. Sorry, I don’t respect that Golden State team. No bench, and even less help for Iggy defensively than he had here.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Jackson will prob. use a lot more of Draymond Green, and it’s too early in Barnes’ career to say he is not nor can ever be a good defender. And how can you say that a guy like Lee, who averages 10 rebs per game (7 def) isn’t a defensive asset. They’ll have plenty of defense to get a 5th seed come playoff time: 1. San Antonio, 2. Memphis, 3. LAC, 4. OKC, 5. Golden State, 6. Houston (D12 ain’t gonna gel), 7. Denver, 8. Minnesota

              • googergieger

                True enough on Barnes. Seeing as we are making assumptions on them and us though, going on what we have seen. The kid can’t defend worth shit. Lee gets easy rebounds. Stat stuffer if there ever was one. Guy isn’t a defensive asset. Matador defense to an effin tee.

                Memphis’s offense isn’t going to get any better. Again their defense keeps them in every game. However their offense keeps every team they play against in every game too. Clips are a huge question mark. Griffin got better offensively, and either Jordan decided to stop giving him every rebound, or Griffin stopped trying to do anything besides scoring last year. Never the less, both their bigs need to get better defensively, they are still weak at the three, and I don’t know if Paul is a versatile or good enough defender to mask Redick’s deficiencies there. Though granted he isn’t as bad as people make him out to be. Not to mention you have to figure they won’t get the cake walk of a schedule they got last year. Spurs? I don’t think Duncan can recreate last year, and he is paramount to their defense. OKC I do think will take a step back. Golden State I don’t see as that much better from last year. Houston will not be better than us. They don’t defend. We just need to hold until Gallo gets back. Hopefully Shaw institutes great team defense that everyone buys into and works at. Hopefully we get a sane schedule we can take advantage of. Honestly if we are ten over five hundred by the time Gallo gets back, we’ll have home court advantage come playoffs.

                Iggy had Gallo last year. No one on Golden State is even close to Gallo good on defense. Kid could deny the ball with physical fours, and switch onto guards and back pedal his feet, stay in front of them, and put his six foot ten hands up to make them shoot over him. Golden State has umm, Mark Jackson’s wife awful singing to distract people from scoring on them?

              • LBJ

                I agree

  • Robin GRAVES

    What Iguodala did showed that he’s an asshole.
    Anyone lamenting that the Nuggets didn’t do more or try harder are spitting themselves and the rest of Nuggets fans in the face.
    Iguodala was misleading and dishonest and selfish.
    Screw him. And anyone still taking his side.

  • David Tesler

    I still want Josh Kroenke and his papa Stan Kroenke to sell the entire Colorado franchises (all three of them), and get the hell out of Denver. Josh has ruined the Nuggets team for years to come.

    • Robin GRAVES

      you’re blaming him for Iguodala?

    • sherlock

      yes sir we are STILL aware you wish them to sell the teams lol my God…

  • Travis

    Gerald Henderson worth looking at as young and would be better player on a good team. Otherwise Gary Neal is type of player we need as can shoot 3’s

  • Brad from Arvada

    Anybody heard a thing from Kroenke or Connelly? They owe it to the fans to have a press conf. or to make a sincere public statement immediately, letting us know what the flip is going on, and what the plan is (or just let us know you’re aware that we need to hear SOMETHING). Ainge, like any decent GM would do, had the kahunas when the Celts were gutted to face the music, schedule a pc, and engage the public. C’mon, Kronk, SPEAK! This town and a lot of diehard Nugs fans need some reassurance . . .

  • kwelitysoul

    Doufus will be buried on the bench in Memphis, just relax and watch what Mozgov and Javale do when given the confidence driven opportunity before we pass judgment…what options did we have and would you REALLY feel better signing any free agent this year?

    • Brad from Arvada

      Yes, I would feel better if we got a FA or trade that would improve the team. Some help in the post and a 2 who can shoot and defend.

  • Brad from Arvada

    Remember the Iggy deal is not final until July 10. Nuggets can still get something in a sign-and-trade with Golden State, instead of getting absolutely nothing. If Kronk/Connelly play their cards right they can at least get some assets from this deal. Luke Adams writes today in HoopsRumors: “If the Warriors and Nuggets could work out a sign-and-trade agreement for (Iguodala), it could potentially be beneficial for both teams. . . . if the Warriors were willing to include an asset or two (perhaps future draft considerations, cash, and/or the rights to Nedovic), Denver could add a couple pieces and create a trade exception of their own, worth Iguodala’s new salary. That’s better than getting nothing for a player the Warriors could sign outright anyway.”

    Full article: http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/07/the-warriors-and-the-salary-cap.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    • googergieger

      Trade Chandler and Miller to anyone for money basically, and get Kirelenko. That will hold us until Gallo gets back, and Gallo and Kirelenko on the floor together with a hopefully improved McGee and Faried, or even just improved McGee, will be beastly defensively, and help us get out in transition.

      • Brad from Arvada

        I like your Kirilenko campaign, but Miller/Chandler is too much for him. Besides Kirilenko is a FA, can’t we get him w/o trading any of our players? 3 yrs./$18mil. Also, I’m guessing you hate Miller and don’t want him backing up Ty this year. Mistake. Don’t tell me you want Green to be given 15-20 min. a game . . .

        • googergieger

          I think Kirelenko is an upgrade from Chandler, so I mean if we were hypothetically saying a trade here, Chandler for Kirelenko straight up? I’d do it in a second. Miller? I think we just need a clean break from Karl. Green some minutes. Evan can handle some back up duties with the ball. When Gallo comes back, he can as well. Is CJ Watson still available? He isn’t a bad back up pg. Don’t know, Miller and Chandler to Bobcats for some picks? I mean some dude yesterday said we dont’ have any money to get Kirelenko straight up, but I thought with Iggy gone we’d have some money to get someone. I know Wolves still have a good number of point guards, so we could trade Chandler there for one? Shame we didn’t make a crack at that Vasquez kid. Chandler and Miller to Sac for Vazquez and some change? I don’t know, I think we just need someone like Kirelenko here who can more or less do what Iggy did for us, except hit free throws.

          • Brad from Arvada

            I think Shaw is going to love Miller as well, not as much as GK, but he will appreciate what Dre brings to this team: Leadership, experience, not to mention some HOF numbers. Plus Shaw’s a PG . . . Kirilenko, yes, I think he’d be a great fit. But look for young Josh and his sidekick TC to try to make a big trade splash, to bring in a couple players, not FAs, who are not even on the radar — a good 2 (i.e. Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Sephalosha, Afflalo) and a strong post player (Biyombo, CJ Miles, Omer Asik, John Henson, Derrick Williams, Wesley Johnson). A trade for nearly any one of these players will require the FO to trade a player or two that before we thought were untouchable.

            • googergieger

              I don’t know if he brings leadership. Somehow that has become synonymous with experience/old.

              I mean if we are going for the moon, make a pass at Rondo. Heck Gallo and some change could get us a Bosh, if you all so wanted it. I think the thing that hurts right now is the fact Gallo is going to miss the first part of the season. If Gallo were one hundred percent healthy, well we would have made it out of the first, firstly, but secondly no one would be worried about Iggy leaving us.

              Honestly Gallo and some change could get us something pretty big in return I reckon. Gortat/Dragic? Ryan Anderson and a first round pick or two? Etc…

              Again, Miller and Chandler for something good, but mostly money for Kirelenko. Think that will help us plenty. Probably pick up that french kid from Dallas for cheap if we need a pg. Beaubois?

      • heykyleinsf

        I don’t think anyone will disagree with getting rid of Miller.
        But IMHO.. right now losing Chandler would be a big mistake.

    • LBJ

      Interesting opportunity. Getting Nedovic might help soften the blow of losing Iggy. The trade exception would allow us to exceed the cap and not go into rebuild mold. How this gets handled will tell us a lot about our FO.

  • googergieger

    He guys you all remember Theo? Yeah that’s that LBJ kid. Feel free to cork, block, ignore, report, whatever him. Kids need to learn respect and all.

    • heykyleinsf

      thanks.

  • Michael

    We have an Ellis clone already, we picked him at No. 46 in the draft. Green is very similar to Ellis on paper:

    Both are 6′-3″ and around 180.
    Both are listed as PG’s but are more natural scorers.
    Both went early to mid second round.

    The bonuses for Green are that he is MUCH more efficient with the ball in terms of shooting percentage (Green compared to Ellis, FG% G .475 E .416, 3P% G .389 E .287) and TO’s (G 2.2 E 3.1).

    I know I’m comparing a college player to an NBA player but Green was basically the only real offensive threat on his team and still managed to be more efficient with the D always focused primarily on him.

    I’m not really sad to see Iggy go, he obviously didn’t want to be here so there is no point keeping people like that around. I will miss his defense but I won’t miss his FT shooting, his passiveness (which usually led to his poor turnovers) and mostly I won’t miss him due to the way he left the team.

    I just read an interesting article over at Denver Stiffs (which linked to a salary cap article about the Warriors) http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/7/6/4498690/why-didnt-the-nuggets-complete-a-sign-and-trade-for-andre-iguodala
    The article provides insight into the sign-and-trade scenario for Iggy. I can see why the Nuggets weren’t keen to jump on board as there is no great benefit to them as we have not been good at using trade exceptions in the past.

    I’m interested to see what the Nuggets do. I, like most, don’t want them to do something just for the sake of ‘doing something’ (such as signing Ellis). I’m currently more interested in seeing who Shaw hires for his staff (hopefully someone that can work with the bigs, I was thinking he may be able to bring in his old friend Shaq to provide some constructive teaching to McGee rather than making jokes about him or maybe Barkley as he seems to love Faried). Once Shaw gets his staff sorted we will know a little more about the future of the team and will get to see how his assistant(s) go in the Summer League next week.

    • heykyleinsf

      I totally agree that we absolutely stole Green.
      That makes three years in a row..
      Faried, Fournier and Green.
      We got backcourt.
      I’m sick of this Iggy idolatry, folks he did us a favor and
      good riddance to spending bad money.

  • heykyleinsf

    Trust me in this. We will see 2013 as the year the Nuggets truly turned the culture around. We have an amazing group of young guys, I love the draft pick of Erick Green.. We got steals three years in a row with Faried, Fournier and Green. We have Lawson, Gallo is rehabbing ahead of schedule, Chandler and Brewer (I’m hoping he stays) had monster games, McGee could be harnessed by Shaw, Randolph showed some amazing potential, Darrel Arthur has a sweet mid range jumper, and maybe Shaw can salvage Jordan Hamilton as well. It’s probably more personal taste than anything, but I didn’t like how Iggy was looked at and invested in as some kind of savior. He wasn’t and the Warriors are fooling themselves if they think the same thing to. Another thing “Mr. Defense” has never been picked for the NBA all-defensive first team, let alone defensive player of the year. The Warriors are a good team for him, because they smoked him in the playoffs. He has never been on the starting all-star team, and he has only been to one all star game in 9 seasons. Yet, the Nuggets were going to pay him for all these intangible, invisible (imaginary) attributes. Yes.. he’s good. But good God nowhere even close to good enough for what the Nuggets offered him. We were lucky he left us, and it should give these guys serious motivation.. ironic that’s what he tweeted when Sacto pulled their offer… (came to their senses).

    I don’t remember if Shaw came first or Connelly came first.. (I think it was Shaw).. But I am thrilled with the hiring of Shaw. Massai left us with quite a bit! So maybe it looks like they didn’t handle Iggy as best as they could have, but I still think it worked out for the best. Who knows what kind of job he will do, and surely we have a lot more to cover, including addressing Mozgov’s contract (groan) and hopefully keeping Brewer around, and I personally hope they don’t get Ellis. I just don’t see him worth it.. but there are a couple of guys still around worth picking up. We are also a little weak at the 5 IMHO.. I’m no Mozzy fan at all.

  • Vitor Lago

    Sign Randy Foye, Beno Udrih (or whatever PG would fit best), Andre Kerilenko, and re-sign Mozgov. Trade Andre Miller for whatever you can get, a draft pick, player overseas, or cash. Start Lawson, Fournier, Chandler, Faried, McGee and have your backup PG be someone like Udrih who can hold his own on both sides of the ball, won’t over dribble or take bad shots, bring in Randy Foye or Jordan Hamilton to do what Brewer did last season, hopefully they can become better defenders then they have shown in the past. AK-47 would be a great player off the bench for Denver, has good size, can do pretty much anything, you need players like him to add depth to your bench, then you have the big man rotation of Arthur, Mozgov and Randolph which should be a solid group to have off the bench. I would really like to see this team on the court.

    • Mikey K

      Nice idea, but with what money?

  • Robin GRAVES

    George Karl reminds me of that kid in the Twilight Zone movie..
    The one everyone was afraid of because his magical powers and temper tantrums…
    Players that he has wished in to cartoonland include..
    JR Smith, Chris Andersen, Jordan Hamilton, Linus Klieza

    and anyone who sat in Andre Miller’s seat next to him
    on the bench.

  • wij

    Personally I think the Nuggets should just fill the gaps with some average veterans that won’t take minutes away from developing the young guys on the team this season. If that means missing the playoffs, that’s the price that is paid and then regroup with a lottery pick. If the young guys develop beyond expectations then next year sign a top FA to take the team to the next level.

    To me signing any of the FA that are left now is not going to make the team a threat in the west. A year to adjust to the new coach and front office and increased roles of the younger guys is what is needed this year. Should not be looking for short term fixes over long term success.