2013 salary cap and luxury tax status, part 2: questions and answers

Q: Which players have the Nuggets signed for 2013-14, and what are their total combined salaries?

A: Based on the latest reported offers, the Nuggets have $60.3 million dedicated to 13 players: Lawson, A. Miller, Foye, Fournier, Hamilton, Gallinari, Chandler, Q. Miller, Faried, Hickson, Arthur, McGee, and Randolph. (Foye and Hickson cannot officially be signed until July 10.) The salary cap is $58.6 million.

Q: Can the Nuggets still sign players even though they’re over the cap?

A: Yes, but only using cap exceptions, which will be explained in the next few questions.

Q: Can the Nuggets keep Timofey Mozgov and Corey Brewer?

A: Yes. Denver has Bird Rights for both, which allows an exception to sign them for any salary between the league minimum and maximum. Management has expressed some interest in keeping Mozgov, but has been silent about Brewer.

Q: Can the Nuggets add players from other teams?

A: Yes. The Nuggets will have a $9 million Traded Player Exception after trading Iguodala and acquiring Foye. This exception cannot be used to sign players directly, but can be used to trade for players, including in sign-and-trade deals. Denver also has the bi-annual exception of $2.02 million, which can be used to sign a free agent. The mid-level exception was used to sign Hickson.

Q: The Nuggets have had a lot of Traded Player Exceptions, but have they ever used them?

A: Yes. Arron Afflalo, Corey Brewer, and Rudy Fernandez were all acquired using Traded Player Exceptions. The team has also used these exceptions as part of larger deals, such as the trade that brought in Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson.

Q: Will reluctance to pay the luxury tax stop Denver from using the Traded Player Exception?

A: No. The Nuggets are more than $11 million below the $71.6 million tax line. That leaves enough space to use the full exception, though doing so might force the team to let go of Mozgov or another player.

Q: Will signing Hickson and Foye make it financially difficult to keep core players like Kenneth Faried?

A: Unlikely, but it’s possible if combined with other salary-adding moves. All players currently signed by the Nuggets have contracts for at least the next two seasons. Faried, Hamilton, and Quincy Miller are due for extensions in 2015, at the same time as Andre Miller, Darrell Arthur, and Anthony Randolph’s contracts expire. If no other significant moves are made, Denver will have around $25 million in space beneath the projected luxury tax line. The Nuggets have shown an aversion to paying the tax, but a willingness to get very close to the line, so extending Faried and others should be possible.

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Tom Darrow

Fourth generation Denver native, stay-at-home dad with a masters degree in applied mathematics, and all-around geek with a passion for Nuggets basketball.

Latest posts by Tom Darrow (see all)

  • COfoEVA

    I would hate to see Brewer go, especially without AI on the team anymore. I think they need to make sure and lock him up.

    • Brad from Arvada

      Yep, keep CBrew. Instant Energy. Too bad his rep got tarnished in playoffs. Had a darn good reg season.

      • tigglon

        But haven’t you heard? It was Karl’s fault, not the players’.

        • Brad from Arvada

          Early in the playoffs GK instilled the same panic and doubt that he was feeling to the Nuggets players. I believe this affected their play more than anything else.

          • LBJ

            The NBA is a players league – and in the vast majority of instances – in a best of 7 series – the better team wins. I’m convinced that is what happened to us against the GSW. Unlike the regular season, we didn’t have Gallo and they had Bogut.
            I think this is what Iggy saw as well.

            • Brad from Arvada

              Overrated (and overused) truism, Googs. Coaches are most responsible for creating an environment for chemistry and team play. This is what wins tough playoff series and championships. It’s a balance of talent, team play, and coaching. When any one of these three is missing or bad, teams go home early in a best of seven.

              • LBJ

                It certainly isn’t an even balance. Talented players playing together are more important than coaching. I don’t think Doc Rivers (or Scott Brooks ) got any dumber as a coach this year as compared to last year. Plus, I suspect if LeBron gets hurt, that Spo suddenly becomes a worse coach.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Too many examples of extremely talented teams who couldn’t play together or were poorly coached (most recent: Lakers last year) . . . Too many examples of championship teams with balance of talent, team-play, and good coaching (most recent: Miami, LeBron doesn’t win without team-play or a coach without Spo’s accumen).

              • LBJ

                I don’t agree that the Lakers were an “extremely talented team” last year. They were comprised of a lot of big names – but some were past their primes, some injured, some so old they were bound to get injured. Furthermore, their reserves sucked.
                I also think D’Antoni is a pretty good coach who was placed in an unwinnable position.

              • Brad from Arvada

                You’re right about Lakers not being a TEAM last year, and you are the only person who has ever said they weren’t extremely talented. In Sept. 2012 everyone in the NBA world agreed that Kobe, Dwight, Nash, Pau, and MWP was one of the most talented lineups ever. They couldn’t play as a TEAM and couldn’t find a COACH who could discover how to form a team from this uber-talented roster. D’Antoni and, for that matter, Mike Brown, are fine coaches — but this team is a classic example for my original point: Balance of Talent + Team + Coaching = Playoff Winning.

              • LBJ

                With Howard hurt, Artest past his prime, Nash extremely fragile, Pau and Kobe showing a lot of mileage and getting older – combined with no bench – I didn’t think they were an extremely talented team. I would agree that at various points in their careers, the 5 individuals in the projected starting lineup were extremely talented – and had they all been in the prime of their career and healthy, then they would be an extremely talented team.
                We are probably just debating semantics….

  • Adam Kunce

    This is like a book you can’t put down. I wish I could jump to the last few pages, and see how this ends. Can’t wait for the new season to start, and it is only July.

  • Brad from Arvada

    Great post, Tom. This clears a few things up for me. Wasn’t sure how the $9M TPE could be exercised . . . thanks! Sounds like it gives us a lot more flexibility to trade for a player this season. Come on KronCon, show some kahunas, be creative, and put together a package for the best SG/wing out there! Someone we can put on Durant, Kobe, Westbrook, or Curry with :28 left in the 4th and we’re one up! A stopper, man! How about Sefolosha, Avery Bradley or Jimmy Butler.

    • Duane Grasmick

      Butler is being talked about as a starter for Chicago and is why they are considering moving Deng

      I like Avery Bradley,but he is only 6’2 so doesn’t seem like a good fit as SG with Lawson already undersized

      • Brad from Arvada

        Just dreamin. These are the best defending 2s (outside of T. Allen) that I can think of. I’d settle for Afflalo.

      • Brad from Arvada

        I mentioned Deng last week as someone I’d like to see as our starting 2. I’d take him in a Chicago minute, and start him on the wing immediately! Go get ‘em KronCon! I’d even give up Faried for him . . . (please cast your stones kindly, Nugs Nation)

        • Trevor

          *Hurls a boulder*

          Please don’t trade our only star for a role player. I’m a fan of Dengs game but the only guy i’d trade for him would be Miller. Chandler maybe if the nugs wanted future cap space but i’d rather use him in a package to get a better player in return

          • Brad from Arvada

            I know, I know. I love Manimal. But Deng, are you kidding me? In fact, I’d trade Faried and use the TPE for him, if necessary. Perfect fit for Nugs at the SG/wing. All Defensive Team 2012), All-Star (twice), outside-inside game, 82% from FT line, 28 yrs old, 6’9″ can play 2 or 3. Nugs are glutted at the 4, and Hickson and Faried are almost clones, Hickson may be better. What is the Nugs’ greatest need right now? SG/wing who plays D. There are not many players I’d trade Faried for — it would have to be for the exact position player we need, and Deng fits that description. Nugs are not going to get the player they really need at the 2 without giving up something valuable in return.

            BTW, Deng’s not a role player. He started 75 games last year, 38 min. per game.

            • googergieger

              East and overrated defender. He is way overpaid as well. Again rather have Kirelenko. I mean Gallo is already better than both, so we just need someone to back up Gallo and occasionally play the three/four when we go small.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Googs, we’re loaded at 3 and 4, and solid enough with Gallo, Chandler, Hickson and Faried — plus all of their backups, We need a SG/wing. Can Kirilenko go 2-3?

                And, come on, to say Gallo is better than Deng or AK . . . not yet. Gallo has proven little in the NBA so far. He has shown what he has the potential to be, but he’s never even lasted a full season yet.

              • googergieger

                Last year he was hands and above better than everyone else in one on one defense according to synergy. No one else was even close to him at his position. Only guy that came close in general was Iggy. Gallo handles the ball better than both of them, can get his own shot easier than both of them, I mean what exactly are they better at than him? Deng is in the weakest conference. Thibs essentially tried to build an offense around him. Kirelenko? Fantastic glue guy. Career wise, he’s one of the most versatile guys ever. Right now? Gallo is just a better player than both of them. Better defender, better offensive player, and the only thing one of them might have over him is Kirelenko’s B-ball IQ. Which you chalk up to experience.

              • googergieger

                And Kirelenko could play two, but we clearly need to get rid of some of our three’s and four’s. Again something like my ideas up top.

              • Brad from Arvada

                My point is we need a 2-3, a wing. Deng fills that need perfectly. It may be a mute point, because I don’t know if we can afford him. I know you’re high on AK. You’ve been campaigning for him for a week or two. And you think Gallo’s one of the best players in the league. No one’s gonna change your mind. But of the three, in my opinion, give me Deng. All that said . . . KronCon isn’t done yet, and we have a better shot at AK than Deng, as things are heating up with the Wolves apparently.

              • googergieger

                He fills the need but Kirelenko doesn’t? Deng is a three. Not a two/three. I don’t think Gallo is one of the top twenty guys in the league, but you’d be hard pressed to find many guys who can do as many things as good as he does. I mean James obviously, but Gallo tends to do everything good. Very few things bad. You like Deng because he got some awards in the east. I like Gallo because he is better.

              • Brad from Arvada

                A little slow, but Deng can play the 2 just fine. If you’ll re-read my orig. post about Deng, it was this: That I’d trade Faried + TPE if we could get Deng. I love Gallo and wasn’t comparing him to Gallo in the first place (even though Deng’s body of work is one of the best in the NBA in the last 9 years, so to say Gallo is better is simply premature). But back to my point: Give me the players the Nugs have on their roster today, trade Faried for Deng, and we have a Top 3 or 4 team in the West. 1. Lawson/Miller/Green, 2. Deng/Foye/Fournier, 3. Gallo/Chandler/Brewer, 4. Hickson/Arthur/Randolph, 5. McGee/Mozgov.

              • googergieger

                All star in the east and a politics based defense team? How many does Kobe have again?

                According to synergy Gallo is a much better defender than Deng. Even with Gallo’s up and down nature on offense, he seems the better player there. Better ball handler easily. Better plus/minus, on/off as well right?

                Again, Gallo doesn’t do many things great(except the defense) but he does do almost everything good and very few things bad. Deng will bring the d and got better with the spot up, a few skills beyond that, but a team like OKC that needs someone to defend three’s because Durant can’t would be a better fit for him. Heck even Memphis or Clips who have nothing there would be better for him. Only reason I’d like Kirelenko here is because he finds a way to contribute, could back up Gallo wonderfully and hold that spot in the mean time, and I think he’s a more versatile defender than Deng. Not to mention I think we could get him cheaper. If we do get Deng I’d rather have him as a back up for Gallo that could play the three/four depending on where you put Gallo when he is on the floor.

            • LBJ

              If we could get Deng with our TPE and a throw in (which Tom seems to say we cannot do) we should go for it in a heartbeat. If he doesn’t work out – we still have an expiring contract.

    • Trevor

      SG is by far the shallowest position in the league in terms of elite players. Cant think of any that would be available for a trade. Outside of Harden, Kobe, and Wade there isn’t much out there. Bradley Beal would be my choice to target in a trade, doubt Washington would bite. Michael Kid-Ghilchrist(sp?) would be another, I could see him becoming an Iggy/Artest level defender. I think we have some good wing defenders that our crappy team defense negated. Not having Andre Miller cover SG’s will go along way. Chandler and Galo are already pretty good defenders. Evan and JHam are both 6’7″+ with good athleticism, there’s no reason they shouldn’t develop into decent defenders.

    • googergieger

      Wouldn’t mind going after Sefolasha. Unfortunately we’d probably have to give up Chandler for him and something else and take Perkins back in return. Honestly Brewer is a great defender, faster than all those guys, but he isn’t as disciplined. Shaw might fix that? Anyways Kirelenko could guard three out of those four, Gallo as well. Curry you need someone faster though.

  • Trevor

    Denbustu the cap boss! Good news on having cap space for Faried, He produces at max contract value but will probably get resigned for much less.

  • Ernie

    Here is my question for the bloggers: What can be done, if anything, to salvage this offseason and make the team a contender again? Or is the best hope that the team gets off to a bad start and they tank for the promising 2014 lottery?

    • dynamo.joe

      Has Jeff Teague got an offer yet? Could we get him in a sign and trade for Andre Miller?

      Kirilenko would fit under the TPE, probably. 3yr/$27M, last year not fully guaranteed?

      Ronnie Brewer is a poor man’s Iguodala for 1/3 the price.

      Now if you want to know how KronC can totally fuck this up; I think that Chicago is shopping Deng and wants bigs. We have been collecting bigs. Deng is a fine player, but over priced at $14M. I don’t think we can trade any of our “new” bigs for 6 months (?) That basically leaves Kenneth.

      Maybe there is some way to restructure the Koufos/Arthur trade as a 3 team trade that sends Arthur to Chicago and Deng to Denver? That would still leave us overpaying for a year of Deng, but he is an expiring and maybe would be willing to resign for less after 2013-2014?

      • Ernie

        We could do any and all of those things. Are we a top 3 team in the west again if that happens? Or is there still no way we pass OKC, SA, Houston or LAC?

        • googergieger

          Houston isn’t a top five team. San Antonio is a question mark just because Duncan is going to have to have another season like last year. Clippers are a question mark. Better team than last year on paper, but still weak at the three, and their bigs are still too one dimensional. Have a real coach now though so toss up. OKC is still a one dimensional team as well. I think we are a top five team. Really need Gallo back as soon as possible and as healthy as possible though.

          • Ernie

            The current odds for the NBA championship next year according to Bovada from the Western Conference:

            OKC 13/2, HOU 9/1, LAC and SAS 12/1, GSW 16/1, MEM 22/1, LAL 33/1, DAL and DEN 40/1.
            Vegas sure thinks Houston is a top 5 team out West, with the Clippers right behind them. Only Miami is above OKC at 2/1.

            http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

            • googergieger

              And heading into last season what were the odds?

              • Ernie

                http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19403352/nba-championship-odds-of-course-the-heat-are-the-favorites

                Miami was tops followed by OKC. I’d say if Westbrook doesn’t get hurt that was the odds on final.

                Denver somehow isn’t on that list, some kind of oversight I guess. It’s a reprint on CBS. Hard to get old odds.
                If you are going to say they don’t get everything right, that’s true. But Vegas odds are the most impartial judge of an offseason we can have right now.

              • googergieger

                Well most of the places had The Lakers as heavy favorites heading into the season last year. People think Dwight are going to make The Rockets contenders. They are a younger Lakers from last year. Dwight alone can’t make a defense.

              • Ernie

                I’d wager with you that Houston finishes in the top 5 in the West. I don’t know what is legal here with money (my guess is nothing), so perhaps the loser must refer to the winner as King Prognosticator throughout the entire 2014-2015 season. Or some other suggestion?

              • LBJ

                Barring injury, Houston is a lock for the top 5.

              • googergieger

                OKC and Spurs are locks for top four. Clips are a question mark but top four easily. Memphis and us are big question marks. We can either finish top five or six,seven, eight. Big question mark on us. If Houston is a top five team, it has more to do with the other teams around them and less to do with them. That team has no defense, and it will be the definition of a live by the three die by the three team.

              • Ernie

                Better idea, and legal. $50 to charity of winners choice by the loser. I take Houston at a 5th seed or better in the West. Googergieger, you take Houston being a 6th seed or worst in the west. Do we have a bet?

              • googergieger

                Na, I wasn’t being literal. They might finish in the top five but they aren’t a clear cut contending team. I mean the west is just a cluter eff beyond the top two teams. Everyone else is a just a huge question mark.

              • Ernie

                OK. I would say don’t make big declarative sentences in the future like “Houston isn’t a top five team” if you either don’t believe that or aren’t willing to back it up.

              • googergieger

                Listen up literal man, Knicks had the number two seed in the east last year. They weren’t a top two team in the east. They aren’t a top five team. They could end up with the fifth seed, but that won’t make them one of the five best teams in the west. That is what is meant when I said top five team. We had the number three spot last year. I think we belonged there, but in the end it seemed we didn’t. I do blame Karl for most of it, but still. Houston is the same team that went from having a limited Asik who at least always shows up with the effort, to an upgrade in Dwight who seemingly only tries when he gets his way on offense. Who again, clearly doesn’t make a defense all on his own.

                Knobs be dense.

              • Ernie

                I figured you would resort to name calling. It’s what happens when you get called out for saying something dumb and rather than blame yourself you blame others. Weak.

                Don’t worry, I won’t take anything you say seriously from now on. And neither should anyone else.

              • googergieger

                Wow, Theo. You can’t even go a day without being found out. 24 comments? Get better.

                Block.

              • Ernie

                No idea who Theo is. I’ve been posting on this blog as Ernie for over 4 years. Try again.

                Or perhaps you meant something else. Really hard to tell with you.

            • heykyleinsf

              Ewww.. wow.
              The Lakers above us.
              Wow that’s harsh.

    • googergieger

      Miller and Chandler to Chicago, Deng to Wolves, sign and trade for Kirelenko here along with either Barea or Ridnour. Ridnour can play the one and two, and won’t be undersized like Barea is, which isn’t a problem but Ty is already undersized. What other places could use Miller? Utah? Heck if Wolves want Brewer, Brewer and Chandler to Minnesota for Kirelenko in a sign and trade. Use the exception to give him a fair offer. Miller to whoever wants him. Hopefully a team that can give us a good pick or whatever.

  • sherlock

    So I read an interesting piece today. With the trade exception we can afford a player in the 15 mil range. The only player in that range currently is Danny Granger, who is being shopped apparently. It’s interesting to say the least, before Granger got injured he was an All Star. Solid defensively, but also gives us a reliable wing that can shoot and drive. There apparently isn’t much of a market for Granger, so Indiana might be willing to just get him off the books with our TPE and maybe A. Miller. Thoughts? I think its interesting to say the least.

    Here’s the link, it’s obviously just rumor stuff, but interesting to read never the less.
    http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/07/09/denver-nuggets-wisely-agree-to-sign-and-trade-andre-iguodala-for-danny-granger/

    • TomRMC

      The exception only allows the Nuggets to absorb a player in the $9 mil range (it’s $12 million, minus Foye’s $3 million for this season). It doesn’t allow the 125%+$100k that a normal trade would; it’s only 100%+$100k (see http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q83 , first paragraph of question 83).

      There aren’t a lot of desirable players in the $9 million range. Jameer Nelson, Omer Asik, and Nikola Pekovic are the only names that jump out at me from http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html .

      • dynamo.joe

        No, not much in the $9M range, but you can use it for multiple players as long as the total is less than $9M, right? There are players in the $3-5M range that are interesting.

        • TomRMC

          Yes, exceptions can be split between multiple players, so it would be possible to get a $3m and a $6m player. They just can’t be combined, so it’s not possible to get a $15m player using the exception.

          The other consideration is that Denver has 13 players under contract, not counting Mozgov, Brewer, or Erick Green. The maximum roster size is 15. Adding multiple players with the exception would mean either releasing those guys or getting rid of somebody else to make room. That might not be a bad thing, but it’s good to be aware of the potential of an acquisition being blocked due to roster space.

      • sherlock

        would us getting rid of the 5 million or so miller is owed help us make Granger work?

        • LBJ

          That is my question also. Could we make a parallel deal that would send Miller’s $5m for a second TPE – and use the combine TPE for Deng/Granger/Eric Gordon?

        • TomRMC

          No, because that $5 million still couldn’t be combined with the exception.

          The only way to make Granger work would be to send out $12+ million in actual salary. That could take the form of sign-and-trades of Brewer and Moz along with Miller’s $5 million. At the end of all of that, the $9 million exception would still be intact.

          • sherlock

            Thanks for the info Tom…I guess that’s not as likely a scenario as I’d hoped! If Granger could get healthy he would be a monster for us.

      • Quincy Miller 30

        Jeff Green would be a great option.

  • David Tesler
  • kwelitysoul

    I’d signing Gerald Henderson an option? Seems like a solid wing with defense and upside…

  • Scott

    Apparently Minnesota wants Brewer back with a sign-and-trade for either JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour. I say we just sign him back for about 3 mil because all Minny can offer him is around 2. Unless we can move miller.. THEN YOU MUST DO IT

    • Brad from Arvada

      Keep Brewer. Good defensive role player at wing. Offers more to Nugs than Barea or Ridnour. And watch, Shaw is going to love Miller, not as much as GK loved Miller, but he is going to see that Miller backing up Ty is a good situation.

      • Nuggz2

        This one is kind of out of left field but I’d like to see the Nuggets trade Miller and Gallo for MKG and Kemba walker using the trade exception if needed. MKG can replace Brewer’s defense. Kemba would be a solid backup at half the cost and would give Lawson complete control of the offense. As far as Gallo goes I still say get out of his contract while he still has “star potential”. Could be a bad move but so is 9 mill+ a year for half a season if he can’t stay healthy

        • heykyleinsf

          Secondary only to Ty.. even with the injury.. I covet no player more highly than Gallo. I don’t like any idea about him leaving. Just personal opinion.

          • LBJ

            Exactly. No way we trade Gallo for those 2.

          • Nuggz2

            I know many are very high on Gallo. And I sincerely hope he proves me wrong and becomes a star for the Nuggets’ sake. But until he puts together a complete season as an all star I would still rather send him away for cap room and young talent. He had a good year last year, but then he got hurt. And who knows if he can get back to form after the knee injury. Just saying. Sell high

            • heykyleinsf

              There comes a point where you just go nowhere with an incessant revolving door. It’s time now to make a plan and stick to it. Gallo will be in the NBA for the long run. I think he’s only 25. I want to keep him rather than a continuous trade-happy approach. It’s fun for fantasy owners, but IMHO it gets nowhere in real life.

              • Nuggz2

                Waiting years for potential to grow can possibly get you nowhere as well…

              • Robin GRAVES

                So you just blow up the roster every year?
                IDK.. it was the best reg season in franchise history..
                seems like there might be something worth salvaging.

  • Quincy Miller 30

    I can’t wait til Andre Miller is traded.

  • aaron

    Gary Neal, Gary Neal, . . .i repeat. . . Gary Neal.

  • Ricardo

    The Nuggets should sign-and-trade Brewer for J.J. Barea. I would prefer him backing-up Ty rather than Miller; he was an integral part for the Mavs’ championship run a couple of years ago.

    • Brad from Arvada

      Keep Brewer.

    • heykyleinsf

      kind of apples and oranges there.. Brewer won’t back up Ty. I have always been a C-Brew guy. Nobody can say that last year’s success happens without him. Anyone want to say that? I didn’t think so.

    • heykyleinsf

      Not that I didn’t see what you’re saying there Ricardo.. but we need depth at both the 1 and the 2.. and I love Barea’s motor.

  • peter

    Why does everybody hate Andre Miller so much? He won a lot of games for us last year, and we might have gotten swept if he didn’t win us game 1. He’s 10th all time in assists, that’s not a misprint. He makes everybody on the floor better and had some nice lobs to McGee. I know we have to hide him on defense, but he’s our backup point guard. We can afford that. The only mistake Karl made was playing him too many minutes, but I think Shaw will reduce him to the proper 15 mins or so a game. I mean who do you want that’s better as a backup point guard in the NBA? I would take Reggie Jackson but he’s not available. Maybe Nate Robinson but he plays little defense also. Billups only wants to go to a contender and I can’t stand Barea.

    • heykyleinsf

      I feel a bit a part of the pitchfork mob.. and sucked in to the all-too-common groupthink. The objectivity flies through the window. Honestly though.. the things he said after we were eliminated were off the charts fucked up. He isn’t as bad of a player and as much of a liability as things are made out to be.. but he does seem to personify a sort of anchor to the team taking off. I think it’s nebulous but still too palpable to ignore. Maybe it was him and Karl together. Maybe it was more Karl than anything.

      But totally honestly.. I don’t want him.

    • TomRMC

      I don’t hate Andre Miller. But he is a poor fit for Denver.

      He can’t shoot. He’s slow-footed. He often doesn’t make defensive rotations (like, he’d just stand there and watch a guy wind up a shot, and maaaaybe put his hand up but not actually close out.) He plays at a slow pace. He seems to think he should play 25+ minutes per game. He does sometimes lead the way in a win, but he’s also occasionally really bad in a loss (look at his game 3 performance to balance game 1.) He’d be a really nice fit on certain teams, but this is not one of them, because many of his weaknesses are magnified by the altitude and the Nuggets style of play.

      I’d much rather have a slightly worse player who was a better fit, whose weaknesses were easier for the rest of the team to mask.

      • LBJ

        If we are going young – I agree he is not a great fit on this team. Furthermore, Karl played him way too minutes last year. But the hate and blame for the first round loss to GS is absurd. Andre certainly wasn’t the only guy on the team that had a bad series – yet everyone but him (and KK) gets a pass. Hell, he was our backup point guard and to blame him for everything that went wrong last year doesn’t make much sense (it would be like Laker fans blaming Steve Blake for last year).
        As Ricardo correctly points out – without Miller we probably would have been swept. The guy has had a great career and to heap all the abuse he get doesn’t really reflect well on Nugget fans.

        • LBJ

          As Peter pointed out, not Ricardo. And Tom this was not directed at you – your post just happened to be the last one in this thread.

          • sherlock

            I don’t feel like any Nugget fan on here attempts to lay blame on Andre for everything that went wrong last year. I think the vast majority of us by seasons end, were just tired of the lack of effort on defense, the hero ball on offense and the complaining of lack of minutes. The favoritism Karl showed Miller throughout the season is also a point of contention for many fans as well. I don’t think Miller is ready to accept the only role that he would be useful for a team which is veteren leadership (voice of reason and advice in the locker room) and 15 minutes a game.

            • LBJ

              I’m not sure how you define “hero ball” – but if it is wanting the ball in your hands at the end of game, then I agree that Andre is “guilty.” The Nuggets didn’t have a lot of players that were willing to accept that role last year. Gallo was one of the few and he will miss the beginning of the year. Lawson made his first game winner ever towards the end of the season. Not to mention, Miller was one of the few players I wanted to see at the FT line when we are protecting a late lead. I suspect this was one of the reasons for Karl’s “favoritism.”

              As far as locker room stuff, I suspect everyone has their own version of what happened and why….

              • sherlock

                If you look up the term hero ball, you will find a smiling photograph of Andre Miller. He is a black hole on offense, if he gets the ball anywhere outside of the top of the key, the ball is not leaving his hands. He does have the ability to post up smaller pg, but that’s what he wants to do every time he touches the ball. The dude has no jump shot/3pt range. So no I do not want the ball in his hands in crunch time the majority of the time. I know your going to say he won game 1 against GS, but his good does not out weigh his bad. If he can accept a much diminished playing time role on this team and be a leader instead of a cry baby, ok bring him back. If it’s Andre from last year, he needs to be dealt.

              • LBJ

                I’ll have to disagree. He averaged 6 assists per game – and I remember many of them while he was posting up.

                If you want to see a black hole – try checking out Melo’s or JR’s stats.

              • Brad from Arvada

                I will forever be an Andre Miller fan. Not his fault that GK relied on him so much. And in a few years when other PGs are being considered for the HOF, many Nuggets fans who are currently Miller despisers will be bitchin and moanin because good ol’ Dre — “one of the best PGs of all time,” they’ll say — is not getting the consideration he deserves. HOF body of work over his career (look at the stats), many with Denver, and some amazing moments and games even last year.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Yes and amen.

  • Ricardo

    The Wolves may try to trade Ridnour to the Nuggets instead of Barea for Brewer.

    https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/354764800477241344

    • peter

      I would be fine with Ridnour, he would be a solid backup, but it doesn’t make sense to bring him in unless we can unload Miller.