Summer League Reaction: Milwaukee Bucks 88, Denver Nuggets 74

In the first game of the 2013 Las Vegas summer league, the Denver Nuggets fell to the Milwaukee Bucks in what ended up being a blowout shortly after halftime. While there were a few bright spots, the Nuggets ultimately sealed their fate by shooting a low percentage from the field and giving a halfhearted effort on the defensive side of the ball. But, this is summer league we’re talking about, so those things can be expected.

There’s really not much to talk about in regards to this game. As was already mentioned above, the Nuggets shot poorly from the floor (35 percent) and didn’t do much to stop their opponents from getting buckets of their own. No players really stood out on either side of the floor except John Henson who finished with 19 points, 13 rebounds and three blocked shots for Milwaukee. Dominique Jones also had a strong outing for the Bucks, finishing with 18 points on 6-10 shooting from the floor; but dude’s been showing up for summer league for as long as I can remember so he’s kinda got this whole selfish scoring thing down.

Nuggets player notes:

Quincy Miller: Probably had the most interesting game of anybody on the Nuggets roster. He didn’t shoot well (who did?), but made up for it by playing impressive post defense and hustling on both ends of the floor. He hit a three, collected eight rebounds and notched three blocked shots. The Bucks did a great job of clogging the lane, which is where Quincy does most of his damage. Had he been able to penetrate he might have finished with a really impressive stat line. Quincy is an intriguing prospect overall. I always thought being labeled a “tweener” was overblown, but in his case it might actually be a serious hindrance as he appears to be too short to guard traditional power forwards and too long to defend the modern-day small wing. Nevertheless, Nuggets fans should be encouraged with what they saw. After he settles in, Quincy might very well put on a show by the end of the week.

Evan Fournier: Nobody looked more poised than this guy. He didn’t electrify anyone with his scoring but his intelligence was clearly on display. Fournier finished with 10 points and three boards, which was very pedestrian by his standards. Fournier’s already proven he can play at the next level so the upcoming few days will be more about getting his teammates involved and establishing a leadership role more than anything.

Erick Green: One of my worries about Green coming out of college was his low shooting percentages throughout his four-year career at Virginia Tech. And while the first summer league game of his career in which his entire team shoots like crap is the last thing from corroboration to my concerns, it was still interesting watching Green struggle to shoot. He played point guard most of the game and did a fine job bringing the ball up the court. His athleticism is certainly there as he showed the ability to get his shot off on more than one occasion; however, he never really succeeded in making it splash. Green clearly has potential and it will likely manifest itself at some point in Las Vegas. The only questions is: when and how often?

Jordan Hamilton: By now we all know what Hamilton is capable of. He belongs in the NBA, no doubt about it. He’s a scoring wing who can rebound and hit threes at a high rate when he’s on. But Hamilton also struggles with his decision making and some of that was visible against the Bucks. His shot wasn’t falling, just like everyone else’s; but unlike everyone else Hamilton resorted to cheap fouls and lazy defensive plays to vent his frustration. It wasn’t excessively jutting, but it was noticeable. Last year Hamilton averaged 19 points per game on 48 percent shooting from the field in Las Vegas so he’s already proven he can score against this level of competition. He’ll likely bounce back next game but monitoring his attitude is something Nuggets fans should be doing throughout the week.

Other player notes:

Ben Uzoh: Of all the players on the roster not named Evan Fournier, Uzoh was probably the most consistent and level headed. He didn’t do anything too over the top and hit some nice shots throughout the game. If he can continue to play solid basketball while stepping it up on the defensive side of the ball, he might catch the eye of a few scouts.

Darius Johnson-Odom: I thought this kid was a surefire NBA talent last year coming out of the draft, simply because he could score. That’s exactly what he did against the Bucks, scoring 10 points in 14 minutes; however, his contributions in other areas were lacking. He played well in Orlando and is another guy who stands a good chance of getting a training camp invite if he continues to play well.

Kyle Barone: He started off really slow but by the end of the game was making some impressive maneuvers in the low post. He finished with eight points on 4-4 shooting from the field in 10 minutes of action. This is one guy who won’t make the roster but will be fun to root for as the week progresses.

Next game is Monday at 8:30 p.m. MST.

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  • Tyler Stevens

    Oh Lord what a Terrible game, Jham 7points? QM 9, Fours 11 i think and Green 4. Not what I expected, I expected a full steamroll.

  • justin

    Can we sign a center please?

    • Ernie

      Winning isn’t the objective so I don’t see that happening.

  • Ernie

    I thought Quincy looked more confident. Hamilton played with effort but didn’t show much more game than in the past. Fournier looked rusty, especially in 2H. And Eric Greene looked very small, had a hard time getting his shot off.

    • Michael

      I agree that Quincy did look a lot more confident (especially with his outside shot, but I suppose if his comments about putting up 700-800 3’s per day is true you should be feeling more confident), but rushed a lot of shots especially close to the basket which resulted in him being blocked about 3 times, he needs to slow down and make his move.

      Hamilton was frustrated with himself as you could see when he went to line on one of the occasions. He seemed to be committed but it never really looks like he is giving it his all, it’s hard to describe, maybe it is just the way he plays.

      Evan was looking okay in the first half but disappeared in the second.

      I disagree with Green looking small, he was playing reasonable D (I thought). He was trying to fight over screens and was playing good 1 on 1 d and troubling Smith, where he had issues was against Wolters (who has 2 inches on him and is tall for PG at 6’5″). Wolters is adept at hitting runners and was coming off screens (which didn’t look like they were being called out by the Nuggets) and hitting the runner without much of a challenge. He wasn’t really looking for his shot as he was trying to show he can run the Point but with his teammates not really providing much for him he forced a few runners.

  • slugdugg

    I didn’t see the game, but Altitude said someone I hadn’t heard of was coaching, and I though Hunt was supposed to coach the team. Anyone have info on that?

    • http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/ Kalen

      It’s Lester Conner. He’s the new lead assistant — I think.

      • Mikey K

        From what the Altitude guys were talking pre-game, his specialty is defense. He needs a couple Aspirin and a few drinks after that game.

  • John Kobbeman

    Vast improvement from Quincy… still needs work, but he set some solid picks, got 3 blocks, got some rebounds, and had a few nice drives and dishes. He took some ill advised shots, and needs to pass more, but better overall. Can’t wait to see what Shaw can do with him.

  • John Kobbeman

    Hamilton still looks like he is trying too hard. Needs some better decision making, but I didn’t really see any improvement from last year… Some flashes, and rebounding, but not overly impressed. 4 string SF IMO.

    • bicklehoff

      I can’t remember Hamilton ever going left in his career. Can he go left? He has NBA potential but I don’t see his game improving, not a good sign for him.

  • John Kobbeman

    DJO looked OK. Took some nice shots, made a few nice plays and played some good D. He would be a nice insurance policy behind Andre Miller.

  • John Kobbeman

    Harangody shot well, and was a hard worker, but I worry that he is not athletic enough to go far as an undersized PF.

    • dynamo.joe

      I think I agree. It looked like he knew where he was supposed to be going, but he was always a step late getting there. Small sample size disclaimer.

  • John Kobbeman

    Green was unimpressive. Was hoping for more, but it is just the first game. He did shoot a lot of bricks tonight though. Probably nerves.

    • Michael

      I think Green’s problem was that he was not playing ‘his game’. He was trying to make sure he distributed the ball to try and show that he can run the Point but his teammates just weren’t hitting shots or making good moves. The majority of shots he took were runners and you could see his confidence was off when he missed the open look near the end, his body language after that shot said it all.

    • bicklehoff

      He seems physically weak to me. He’ll get pushed around straight up. He’s going to need to use his skills and ability if he’s going to make the team. Physicality won’t be his ticket.

  • Charliemyboy

    Well, well, well, first summer league game and…
    We almost got within 20 of the, who did we play again? Why did GK not play these young guys so much? Did they prove him wrong? Oh, it’s just one game against, who? What has the new GM brought as far as try outs? We almost got within 20 against, who? Only three things missing in our players and coaching in the summer league; shooting, rebounding and defense. Well 4; teamwork. But, Shaw is new, so let’s give him a few seasons. I still have not been impressed about going real far in the playoffs with 40 wins. Thanks Josh and Kleiza, who won’t admit how much you hurt our franchise.

    • Tom

      It’s summer league and its 1 game… Settle

      • Brad Murdock

        The only thing less important than pre-season and the world is ending because of it!

      • Charliemyboy

        Oh, is that what the Bucks did? Settle? The objective no matter who says what: win. The Nugs were beat for the aforementioned reasons which largely defines the game of basketball. Facts are facts.

        • Mikey K

          The Nuggets are learning a new system, new philosophy and seeing what they have in players George Karl didn’t give a damn about having on his roster. If he could have told them to take a hike, he would have.

          It’s one game with a lot of guys looking to make a roster somewhere and a few guys that saw the court only walking to and from the locker room to the bench last season.

          Let Shaw and his guys have some time with them all together and start building. Granted, this upcoming season will have us all shaking our heads at times, but I’d rather let them build and learn and get to that level where there is no 1st round surprises.

          • Charliemyboy

            Let’s let the Bucks give their rookies some time to gel, then maybe they can beat the Nuggets. Sometimes I’m tired of talking about potential. To me potential is now. If someone improves, their potential went up. This waiting and hoping game is discouraging. They better do better now, or Jham and the others as just who they are. Did Karl know?

            • Tom

              In all fairness the bucks team was quite experienced and Henson is much bigger then everyone else

              • Charliemyboy

                I know, I know; I just want to win!!

              • Tom

                I know me too!

    • Ernie

      3 Questions.

      1) When JHAM was great last summer league did you think that meant something? If not, why would last nights game (the first in summer league) be some sort of definitive statement of his game?

      2) Why are you blaming Shaw for this game, he isn’t the coach. He was just there to observe

      3) Are you talking about Kleiza the writer? What sort of powers do you give him?

      • Charliemyboy

        I lived 16 years in Colorado; love the NBA and grew to love the Nuggets. It was getting better and better, the best being last year. Then, due to ownership, they lost last year’s two best managers in the NBA; Masai and George. I grant that George was stubborn. But look what he did with what he had. Had he been given a gentle ultimatum that conference finals or retirement, he would have kept Iggy and won the conference finals this next year, or left. Now, we’re in the dirt. Plugging holes with now demonstrated vision. What is our vision? What kind of team do we want?

        To address your questions, is JHAM better this year? Fornier? Why blame the coach? He’s the player! Can’t blame Shaw, but still disappointed in getting smashed with our current team support players. Was Shaw proactive, or just sitting by? Kleiza makes a living by causing ire under the pretext of knowledge and importance. Rarely helpful, but, as a primary sports writer in Denver, of course he influences opinion. Negative always.

        • herpderpnuggets

          you should take a break from the nba….it would probably do you some good

          • Charliemyboy

            Are you kidding? It’s almost as fun fighting back as it is winning. Listen, I have a protocol. I was riffed after 16 years as ‘as expert’. I’m Karl’s age. So I understand both sides. Besides, I like to rile the youngsters.

            • herpderpnuggets

              the negativity is getting really annoying though, and maybe you are taking this a bit too seriously

              • Brad from Arvada

                Herp calls for Charlie’s retirement. I vote you in, C. The RMC forum is for Nugs fans who take the team a bit too seriously. That’s kind of the point. All of us nerdy Nugiacs need a place to voice our nonsensical opinions about a team and a game that mean absolutely nothing in the vast scheme of things. Keep the comments coming, C. They’re appreciated, man.

              • Charliemyboy

                Thank you my man. I don’t even live in Colorado anymore; I’m retired in Reno! But my wife has me walk the dogs when the Nuggets lose ONE game, and I love my vicarious living and passion. Thanks again, Brad.
                herpderpnuggets, please don’t take me too seriously.

              • Charliemyboy

                Switch channels.

        • Blue

          Kleiza plays for the Raptors, Kiszla writes for the Denver Post.

          • Charliemyboy

            My bad.

        • hazyb

          Charliemyboy i agree with a lot of your points, I disagreed with firing Karl – he was derided unfairly for not developing McGee or other young people but I thought he found a nice balance between winning and developing youngsters. And contrary to opinion I thought McGee was a great example – he was simply not ready for a larger role yet, but he sure did finally buy in to the hard-work necessary to get there. Nobody was a better cheerleader for his teammates from the bench – a huge, huge change from his days as a Wizard. And though Koufus had a bad few games, I thought he was really underrated as a non-sexy glue-guy type. Trading him for Aurthur (only to then get yet another power forward) seemed like a HUGE stretch and an over-reaction bent on proving a (misguided) point.

          And Kiszla….my god, don’t get me started. I’ve never once finished an article of his thinking “wow, that was insightful.” More like, “wow….this bozo gets paid to write this type of poorly-thought-out, uninformed, and unnecessarily critical jibberish?”

        • Bryan

          I don’t understand what you mean about Shaw being proactive or standing by? He wasn’t coaching in the Summer league. Summer league is usually a chance for assistant coaches to get the opportunity to act as a head coach.

          We won’t know if Fournier and JHAM are better until preseason and the regular season start.

          They could each drop 40 points in the next games they play and it wouldn’t mean anything because it’s summer league and so can’t be taken too seriously.

          What are you talking about with this retirement ultimatum? Kroenke said that Karl would be back after the Nuggets lost in the playoffs. Karl got fired because he tried to leverage the Masai leaving for Toronto situation into a contract extension. He overplayed his hand and it blew up in his face.

          • Charliemyboy

            Shaw sets the tone and is the head coach. He was there. What is the likelihood that either Fournier or JHAM drop 40 points combined in the next game, much less games. Other teams shouldn’t take summer games seriously, but one beat us bad. Kroenke said he was very optimistic about keeping IGGY also. Word is he offered $8mil and insulted him. I don’t believe Karl got fired due to the leverage. That was his response to protect his position. He got fired because he didn’t play McGee because he wanted to win, and because he was 62 and had previous health concerns (which he bravely fought through).

            • Bryan

              He’s not coaching and the majority of players on the team won’t even be in the NBA this year. They also started practicing two days ago.

              I didn’t state that they would drop 40, I said if they did it wouldn’t be something to get too excited about because it’s the summer league.

              I think the Nuggets summer league team only won one game last year. They weren’t a good team but that had no bearing on the regular season.

  • Mikey K

    Brian Shaw has his work cut out for him defensively. I saw 3/4 of the game. Turned away at halftime and came back down 20. Oy. I thought Green tried to do too much. Fours looked good as did Q Miller. Other than that…Oy.

    • LBJ

      Wait until Joshy boy lands Nate Robinson!!! Then we won’t have to worry about Greene!

      • Mikey K

        Or defense!

        I wouldn’t mind him at the right price. Someone that can get red hot and put up obscene numbers in minutes. If not, you pack him back on the bench, thank him for trying, and wait for some other night.

        • hazyb

          Ty Lawson IS Nate Robinson – but like 10-times better. I fail to see what value Nate-Rob adds on this particular team.

  • toluene hawk

    Cue the masses shouting “UNLEASH JHAM!!!!!!”

    • LBJ

      Could it be that Karl actually knew what he was doing????

      • toluene hawk

        Hell no…the folks on this blog know 10x more about what goes on during practice, training camp, locker room than the people in charge of the team.

        • LBJ

          I keep forgetting that…

        • http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/ Kalen

          To be fair, it was just one game. As I mention in the article above, Hamilton averaged 19 points per game last year in Las Vegas which was good for 12th overall. And I have no problem with Hamilton getting benched if he makes bad on-floor decisions. None whatsoever. My problem was always Karl’s inconsistent and often undefined double standards. He played favorites and let Andre Miller do virtually whatever he wanted on the floor, meanwhile guys like McGee and J.R. and Hamilton get benched for doing the exact same things. None of our writers have ever begged for Hamilton to play, but being that this is our blog, we surely have the right to criticize Karl about the ostensible double standards he employed during his tenure that may very well have cost the Nuggets, their fans and players, playoff wins over the course of a near decade-long period.

          • toluene hawk

            Kalen, my comments were in reference to the folks that often leave baseless comments in favor of Jordan Hamilton being the second coming of Carmelo.

            I always hold the authors’ points of view in high regard.

            • herpderpnuggets

              Wow can somebody say brown-noser?

          • Charliemyboy

            I cannot understand blaming the prior president for today’s miserable economy regardless. I’ll look at one more summer game, hell, I’ll probably stick with the Nuggets regardless. I just think what you are saying and what Karl said about his firing still lends to his being correct. What did he say? “It’s stupid.” Nothing wrong with Shaw; nice pedigree and personality. But a hall of fame coach? Maybe in 20 years? We had no idea what was going on in Karl’s mind; he saw things we never saw in this game. Talk to Chuck and others who know. I pray I get less shaded with Josh’s ego and smirk, and my vastly lowered expectations. After the next game, “it’s only the summer league, and the objective isn’t to win.” Right.

          • Charliemyboy

            Kalen, if your job was on the line, would you play someone who couldn’t win? Read some of the other objective analysis about Miller. And KK fit in and did his job until the end (when he was outmatched). McGee did no better against GS. There are things we don’t know about on a team. The record, the big picture, speaks (ok, here comes the playoff thing). I just want to win. I don’t like this just one game thing. One game won is fine.

            • Bryan

              The thing is George Karl didn’t win. His team got bounced in the first round of the playoffs despite having home court advantaged. And not only that they got blown out in of their home games.

              Also, the Nuggets played their best games of the series when they benched KK and started McGee.

              If you really cared about winning, you’d be glad Karl is gone since he’s a demonstrably bad playoff coach.

              • Charliemyboy

                I will take your advice to heart and wait for the wins. Shaw stated that his objective was to advance in the playoffs. He has to win during the season first. We would have. I hate it when they lose; I’m a very bad loser.

              • Bryan

                If you’re going to assume regular season success based on Karl’s history than you’re going to have assume playoff failure on his history as well.

              • Charliemyboy

                You’re probably right. But, GS gave SA a real hard time. Karl got caught in a storm. However, one more year with this team and he may have adjusted, or been fired. We might have had a fabulous year. Remember, Karl went to the finals in Seattle, and only didn’t win because of Jordan. I have to quit dwelling in the past and hope Shaw can get it done. I’m sure they read these blogs.

        • Ckwizard

          It is so fun having Karl apologists on this sight for their constant short sightedness… I mean yeah any moron like me can shout “FREE JHAM” and easily admit no there is no evidence available to me in regards to JHAM… The calling is actually for anybody who isn’t Andre Miller or C Brew, because like the Karl Apologists who can see clearly that The Coaches “know best” are blinded to the reality that evidence clearly supported Reliance on Andre Miller is going to INSURE you lose inthe first round of the playoffs and ultimately get FIRED… Because a unknown player to us fans that want better ie JHAM is better than a proven epic fail which was last year… But wait everything would have been different if Gallo didn’t get hurt or excuse, excuse, cue more excuses for flaming out year after year in the first round… But hey those idiots don’t have a clue or wait a minute oh yeah the owner must agree with the “folks on this blog” because he fired George Karl…. Cheer from this passionate Nuggets fan!!!! FREE JHAM!!!

          • Charliemyboy

            Ask Kenny Smith. Karl perfect? No! Karl with 60 wins next year? Highly probable. To the conference finals? Perhaps. Now? 47 wins and out (pray I’m wrong). I like Shaw… just hoping and basing evaluation on facts. As you excuse Karl Apologists, let’s see if you are proved right. Let’s see Ham average his 20 in the summer and play 20 minutes next year. Let’s see if Karl was wrong…

            • Blue

              Highly probable to win 60 games next season? I highly doubt it. It’s more about talent in the NBA than coaching, if we lost Iggy we would have lost more games regardless. A lot of bad personnel decisions too (would Masai have made a difference?). Karl was fired and Memphis, Clippers, Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Detroit, and Boston would eventually all have openings. Did Karl get real consideration for these jobs? Teams will all say that Karl is a Hall of Fame coach. That’s the politically correct thing to say. But the proof is in who they interview and hire. Most teams don’t really think he is Hall of Fame material or he would be employed.

              • LBJ

                Just because he wasn’t immediately hired doesn’t mean jack. Boston and Philly are tanking – why would a 61 year old coach (or why would the team) want to go there? The Clips would have been a nice fit – but they went with Doc Rivers (even though he was getting stupid again – like he was from 2005-2007). Memphis was hell bent on hiring an assistant coach.
                Why not set out a year and take Josh’s money? Then come back next year…

              • Blue

                Karl: I’m free now
                Clippers GM: What?
                Karl: I’m free, the Nuggets fired me.
                Clippers GM: This is awkward George……we were using you as leverage with Boston to get Doc Rivers.
                Karl: Oh
                Clippers GM: Good luck!

              • LBJ

                Leverage? FYI – He wanted out of Boston and Boston wanted to get rid of him…

              • Blue

                Yes, leverage. As in they were negotiating compensation for Doc Rivers. Did you think they let him go for nothing?

              • LBJ

                Why didn’t the Clips just mention they might want to hire Brian Shaw? Or wouldn’t that leak have produced any leverage???

              • Blue

                Yes, they did use Shaw and Hollins too. I don’t believe I ever excluded them.

              • LBJ

                I doubt if telling the Celtics you could actually hire a new coach provided any leverage at all. I’m pretty sure even Ainge could figure that out.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Just my 2¢ . . . GK will have a job as a head coach in the NBA for the 2014-15 season. He’ll take a job right after 2014 playoffs, so he has ample time to have a say in his team’s draft, hire a staff, determine summer league teams, and ensure he gets a full training camp with his new team. He’s getting too old to take a team mid-season, i.e. he won’t interview if a coach gets fired during the 2013-14 season. (And, Blue, his record will get him into the HOF.)

              • Blue

                I don’t doubt he will get a job again in the NBA. Professional sports in general recycles the same old, tired coaches ad nauseam. I don’t dislike the guy but I am glad he won’t be coaching my favorite team next year. Lets also not put him in the Hall of Fame just yet as many on this blog often do. There are only 16 NBA coaches in the Hall of Fame and only 5 of them have not won a NBA championship. Most of those five got in because of their college merits. Don Nelson and Jerry Sloan are the two guys that are in without NBA championships, but the bar might be set higher by the time Karl retires. I wouldn’t doubt him making it or I wouldn’t be upset if he did make it. It’s a possibility but he wouldn’t get my vote if I had one.

              • Bryan

                Casey doesn’t have a lot of support in Toronto. Masai could have fired him and brought in Karl but it looks like he didn’t even consider it.

              • Blue

                It will be interesting to see if the job opened up in Toronto. I always wondered if Masai and George liked each other.

            • Brad from Arvada

              Facts? Your comment here is what-ifs and opinionated prediction, not facts. (I like most of what you write, my man, but let’s not confuse facts with opinion.) Nothing is fact until they start playing the games, and more important, not till the last loss of the season. Then you can start spouting “facts.”

              • Charliemyboy

                Brad, facts a cumulative and for periods, and can determine probabilities. Some are already in the curve. The higher the sum of units, the broader the curve and the more we understand when units go beyond the deviations. Fact is we won, 57 games w/current configuration on an up curve. Variables include better team synergy with age and experience for the next period. Facts are Josh broke that consistency and, more than likely will move toward the downside of the curve. I hope not.

              • Brad from Arvada

                You’re defining probabilities not facts. The only “fact” you have mentioned in this thread is based on the data from what has already happened (“we won 57 games”). Also, in your last sentence, again, “more than likely” is not “fact.” We will be able to gather facts about this new Nuggets team when they play games from which we can gather data to arrive at facts. Charleymyboy — this ain’t no big deal; like I said, I like most of your posts, but when you stated that you were “basing evaluation on facts,” it just pushed this petty little button in my wee little brain . . . so I called you out. Overall, you’ve got some great thoughts, fellow citizen of the ineffable Nuggets Nation.

              • Charliemyboy

                Brad, Brad… I said probabilities. Probabilities are likelihoods based on facts and trends; e.g.., the stock market. I have been a risk manager for most of my adult life and we deal in probabilities (my wife calls me a standard deviation). This basically means that the likelihood of an occurrence is based on what has led up to the occurrence and the credibility and number of samples determining the likelihood. In basketball, the variances of talent, skill, history, coaching and foremost, teamwork, are merely responses to those variables combined to determine outcomes. And because of the number of variances, the difference in teams, talent, etc., is small, but can separate the champs from #30. So if we won 57 games based on all things considered, and synergy through playing together with the same units is historically gained over time, we could have won 60 games next year (notwithstanding injuries or improved competition). But we dislodged the supporting trends and increased the variances. Therefore, we probably will not be as successful for a time. The other approach, as San Antonio and Miami does, is stick with what works and make only minor changes. We made major changes and could expect major results. I’m hoping positive, but likely negative for some time.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Nuff said. I’m with ya.

          • toluene hawk

            So anyone who thinks George Karl, a man with 30 years of NBA coaching experience, doesn’t know what he is doing, is an apologist?

            I guess so.

            • Ckwizard

              Don’t get me wrong Toluene Hawk and LBJ I enjoy the opinions that you have about GK and will admit GK is a great basketball coach… My question to you is do you plan on continually using this season to establish your opinion about what has transpired this offseason? It is clear that you don’t agree with the changes… Cool Bro but c’mon don’t be mad. Last season played out yes go back and look at the archives because the group of Googergieger, Myself, and others were expecting exactly what happened and the performances of Miller and C Brew were exactly what fans who watch every game expected and history shows that GK was unable to overcome the deficiencies of “his” roster.

              Maybe just Maybe A different coach and the tweaking of the roster will in fact bring better things. Let the season play out and may it prove you right… But I will return petty with petty. peace

              • LBJ

                Maybe (just maybe) we would have been better off with Ujiri/Karl tweaking the roster (by trading from our depth or bringing in a real FA). You know, kind of like what OKC and SA do? No – our cheap ass owner produces the kind of disaster we have had this offseason.
                Last season “played out” with a first round loss primarily because Gallo got hurt. However, had he not got hurt, we would have likely not made it past the second round. Ujiri acknowledged as much earlier in the year when he said we weren’t ready to compete for a title.
                Now, we are no where even close….

              • Charliemyboy

                Finally someone who thinks like I do! Josh just wanted to show who was boss and consequently showed his immaturity, poor judgement and ego. Sure George was stubborn, but that’s the way true leaders are. George has the record to prove his judgment and will. Look what the guy overcame and did! That’s character, which does a lot more than money. All I wanted was one more year with an ultimatum. If he couldn’t change, and do better in the playoffs, that’s up to him. I feel for George. I pray Shaw has the moxy he learned from his mentors, and isn’t wimpy. I think Josh has left the basketball community with a bad taste and bad reflection of the Nuggets. We are plugging holes, not complementing long term strategy. Let me ask this… how much turn-over has Miami and SA had? Synergy takes time.

              • Bryan

                Karl has the track record? How many championships has he won?

                BTW, Miami had a fair amount of turnover when they brought in Bosh and James. They were in the finals that year.

              • Brad from Arvada

                Kronk Jr. has shown moxy, by firing Karl. and his main mentor is his dad. The Kronks don’t bargain, and I was impressed with JKronk’s reasonable explanation in his PC after he let GK go. In a nutshell he said that he wants to mold this team his way, and did not want to lock himself into the same ol’ same ol’ GK philosophy for another 3 years, so he cut the ties that bind now rather than later. And what’s wrong with “filling holes”? That’s what you do when you have holes, you fill them. By long-term strategy I know you’re referring to your opinion that GK needed a few more years to work so they could become more cohesive, but this is pro sports, man, and as much as I, too, think Karl could’ve done some good things given a couple more years . . . the owner had myriad valid reasons to can him.

          • LBJ

            Epic fail is winning the most games in franchise history?? WTF? I can guarantee you that when Andre Miller and JHam are both done playing in the NBA (which may be sooner than you think), we won’t have to guess who will have had the better career.
            I wonder why OKC didn’t blow up their team (that Westbrook excuse was lame) and bring in a bunch of free agents that their own teams didn’t want. Maybe because their owner isn’t a cheap ass moron?
            Well at least we solved the losing in the first round of the playoff thing – we will be watching on TV.

            • Ckwizard

              Andre Miller has had a good career but based on interviews and rumors and actual actions during live games on thing is obvious about Miller he can be a “diva” so to speak. At this point it is probably a safe bet that Miller like Karl will never win an NBA Championship and it is fact that Miler has yet to lift a team to championship status. Like it or not knowing nothing about a player like JHAM I can still say a team ie the Nuggets or any other team has a better chance of winning a Championship with JHAM on their roster than with Miller… Yes this is my opinion and based on the facts of Miller’s career which suggest that Miller is not going to get better and will be unhappy if he dosn’t get 20 plus minutes, where as JHAM will probably get better and will be significantly happier if he gets the opportunity to play. Nobody “Knows” how good JHAM can be but the facts tell us what we got in Miller.

            • Brad from Arvada

              Thumbs up on your first comment about Miller and JHam. Thumbs down on your second . . . give ‘em a chance, man. Save the bitchin and moanin for when you might really need it, when and if the Nugs are cellar dwellin in the West. That way you won’t have to endure the “I told you so’s” that we optimists will be layin on you if it turns out the Nugs actually have found a winning combination of coaches and players during this wacky summer.

          • Brad from Arvada

            This logic is getting so old in this forum. I’m sure you love your Nugs, like most of us do who make comments on RMC. But your so-called “passion” has apparently clouded your vision or your memory, because every Nugs/basketball fan who attended or watched EVERY Nugs game last year will admit that AMiller and CBrew, on the majority of the nights they played were hands-down either 1) the smartest, grittiest, cleverest (Miller), or 2) the best hustling, most sacrificial, most clutch (Brewer) player ON THE FLOOR. Level-headed, objective Nugs/basketball fans with half a memory will not discredit the amazing contributions these two players made. (And every coach in the league covets players like these!) I don’t blame GK one bit for relying on either of ‘em — they earned their coach’s and their teammates’ trust by their play, not because they were teacher’s pets. Should GK have been fired? Hell yes. He had plenty of seasons to prove he could consistently win in the playoffs. I support Kronk in firing his ass. But to say that GK should have benched guys like Miller and Brewer in favor of guys like JHam or even Fournier . . . well, your post suggests that you are guilty of being blinded by your love for your team rather than being a fan/student of the game of basketball.

            • Ckwizard

              On most nights Miller could not play defense and Brewer is a very inconsistent offensive player not to mention is a gambler on defense ( Brewer was/is my wife’s favorite player and she loves Brewer for all the reasons you stated) the problem is that it is actually the passion and love for those players by fans and that “respect” that allows fans or the coaches to blatantly disregard the aspects of their individual games that were costing the team games both in the regular season and more glaringly in the playoffs.

              Hell remember Afflalo he hit three free throws once to contribute to a victory oh and he hit game winners, I would rather have Afflalo on this team than Miller or Brewer… Because in my opinion he is a better Defensive player than both of those players and a better offensive player than Brewer… but that is my opinion does it hurt your feelings that I think Afflalo is better than Brewer and Better than Miller?

              • LBJ

                I think we can all agree that Affalo is better than Andre/C Brew. Could we acquire him for either of those 2 guys? The answer is no. As a result, we had to replace AA with either Andre,C Brew, Fournier, or J Ham.

              • Brad from Arvada

                We replaced AA with Iggy. Now there’s a deficiency at the 2, and KronCon is trying to fill it with purely *shooting* guards who can’t play the wing or defend. I don’t agree that AA is better than AMiller — two completely different players who play completely different positions. Anyone who has read my posts for the last few years knows that I think AMiller is one of the better PGs of our time. Not flashy, not fast, dumb looking jumper, worst hair, gets a gnarly ‘tude from time to time. But the dude understands the postion as well as anyone who’s ever played the game.

              • LBJ

                I’m not debating over their careers, I think AA at 27 is better than Dre at 37. Yes, I acknowledge they play different positions. But it appears that Joshy wants to unload Miller – and we aren’t getting anything like AA in return.

              • toluene hawk

                Why would we be able to get back a guy we traded and followed up the trade with a press conference “we got a definite upgrade at our SG position”?

                That’s like your gf dumping you because the pool boy is hot and taking you back when she found out he was married.

              • LBJ

                That is my point – we would NOT be able to get back AA for either Miller or C Brew.

              • Brad from Arvada

                It doesn’t happen a lot, but it happens. Camby back to Knicks, for example. Chauncey was brought back to Nugs after being traded a few years earlier. Ben Wallace back to Detroit; Bobby Jones (F, Univ. of Washington) played for the Nuggets in 2007, was waived at beginning of 2008 season, but was signed back to Nugs at end of 2008 season. There have to be quite a few others as these are just the players I can remember from the top of my pointy head.

              • Brad from Arvada

                I like Afflalo (love to have him back, we could use his D skills at SG/wing right now), and I like Miller and Brewer—each having their own strengths and weaknesses. Each served a needed purpose on the Nuggets teams they’ve played on, and GK used each as he believed they could contribute to winning games. It’s not blind love, loyalty or unwarranted respect that kept these guys in games, it’s because they laid it all out on the floor and kept us in the damn game more often than not.

    • Brad from Arvada

      Look no further than last night’s game to get a glimpse of what Nugs get from JHam. Out of control play, panics when he’s not making his shot, immature decisions with the ball. Potential to be a very good, athletic, spacer-type asset, if he could begin to show that he understands the word TEAM.

  • dynamo.joe

    Let’s give credit where credit is due. I voted Fours best spray on tan of summer league.

    • Charliemyboy

      Love it! At least he has attitude. Needs more spray and lead weights to put on bulk for more spray…

    • toluene hawk

      He must’ve been watching some old Bronco games to further assimilate himself into Denver culture and when the camera zoomed to Shanahan…

      well the rest is history

  • Paul Griggs

    Now Brewer’s gone, I hope they’re rebuilding the roster to fit Shaw’s direction but I think I’m being kind in saying so–pray for 40 wins this season!

    • Mikey K

      It’s summer league. A lot of the guys on the court aren’t even signed to any roster, but invited by teams to fill out summer league rosters. Some of them might make it, others won’t. Winning isn’t the objective even with the new tournament format. Information is.

    • Brad from Arvada

      Hey if we’re praying, have some faith! — I’m praying for a first-round playoff series victory! To h-e-double-toothpicks with 40 wins.

  • Paul Griggs

    Oh great, now we’re interested in Nate “Chuck it Up” Robinson…the decision to hire Shaw seems like the best decision they’ve made this off-season. Another terrible decision if they go this way.

    • Brad from Arvada

      I like the possibilities with Robinson. No better sparkplug in the league. Clutch shooting from long distance has been a weakness since Melo’s been gone. Foye and Robinson can provide that — hopefully off the bench with < 20 min/gm each. Neither provide enough def. to play starters minutes.

      • LBJ

        The highlight of Nate’s NBA career was him helping Melo set the world record in the 30 meter backpedal during the “fight” at MSG.
        Come to think about it – it says a lot about both of these players..

        • Brad from Arvada

          Maybe that MSG moment kinda did define both players (Melo a wuss, and Nate Rob a tiger) . . . but . . . the highlight of Nate Rob’s career was this year in the playoffs. He was arguably the Bulls’ best player in both Rds 1&2. This is another reason I wouldn’t mind seeing Lil Him in Nuggets blue — tested playoff vet who comes through in big games. Only current Nugs players with playoff experience beyond Rd 1: DArthur with Memphis; RFoye with Clips; and JJHickson with Cleveland. Nate Rob has also been to a Championship series with Boston. See a pattern here of the type of personnel KronCon is bringing in? Playoffs, playoffs, playoffs . . .

  • Charliemyboy

    I notice the changes in the better teams are few. They don’t just plug holes, they look closely at what skills complement without detraction. To pick a 3-point shooter just because we are poor at it doesn’t consider the overall impact on the team and how other strengths might diminished. There needs to be some analytics involved. Maybe they are not communicating over all the impact of these acquisitions and trades. They appear to show poor judgment. This is why Iggy was so valuable; he had breadth in his game. Watch him at GS (sadly). Why are our choices all what remains? And our timing on selection. These things have to be tweaked when you can’t command a super-star; players are only inches differing at this level. The good teams are integrated units, meshed from experience, skills, talent and potential; not reactionary wishes.

  • LBJ

    As long as the Nugs are busy accumulating players that their current teams don’t want, I noticed that the Celtics are trying to dump Kris Kardashian and G Wallace.
    Maybe we could see if they want Faried and Fournier for them???

    • toluene hawk

      Yeah let’s give our two best players for bloated, overrated contracts.

      Are you even a Nuggets fan, man? Quit drinking on Sunday evening.

      • LBJ

        You need to dial up your sarcasm filter. :)

    • Brad from Arvada

      Maybe KronCon is saving that $9.1 mil TPE for a pretty special player. Patience . . . Patience . . .