Report: Nuggets to sign Nate Robinson

As first reported by Benjamin Hochman of the Denver Post Nate Robinson has come to an agreement with the Denver Nuggets on a two year deal. According to Sam Amick of USA Today, it is shaping up to be for Denver’s bi-annual exception, which amounts to $4.03 million over two years with the second one being a player option.

Robinson was Chicago’s offensive spark-plug off the bench in the absence of Derrick Rose and levied this added responsibility into perhaps his best season as a pro. Per-36 minutes he averaged 18.5 points and 6.2 assists on 43 percent shooting from the field and (most importantly) 40.5 percent shooting from three.

The money for Robinson is fair and like J.J. Hickson it seems like the Nuggets are buying into their latest seasons as the beginning of a favorable trend and not an anomaly. However the fit in the context of the roster seems odd, as a third string point guard whose size makes him an even greater liability on defense than Ty’s does little to address the alarming lack of competent defenders on the roster.

This move is par for the course of everything else that has happened thus far in this offseason, where the front office has been collecting solid assets at fair prices who don’t seem to quite fit in the context of the team. I can’t help shake the feeling that we are all squinting at a painting up close, trying to make sense of it, and it won’t be until this offseason is over that we will be allowed to step back and take in the whole picture.

UPDATE (5:52 MST by Charlie)

David already did a great job putting the Nate Robinson signing in perspective, but now that the Nuggets’ roster is beginning to fill up we can take a look at how it affects future flexibility and what the added depth could mean for some of the incumbent players already on the roster.

Nate Robinson’s two-year deal (player option in the second year) gives the Nuggets 14 guaranteed contracts with the maximum roster size set at 15 for next season. That does not include the $3.9 million qualifying offer tendered to Timofey Mozgov, who is still a restricted free agent. Mozgov is said to be looking for a long-term contract and is rumored to be negotiating terms with Denver. Being that Mozgov has not yet received an offer sheet and few teams have the financial flexibility to offer one, his return seems likely and that would give the Nuggets a full roster, meaning any future additions to the team would have to come by way of trades or an unlikely buyout.

The most immediate effect of the Robinson signing is it hinders the Nuggets’ ability to sign second-round pick Erick Green. Denver acquired his rights in a draft day trade and just got a look at him in summer league, where he showed off his scoring prowess but struggled running the point against NBA-caliber competition. The Nuggets must offer Green the required tender before next season or they would lose his rights and he would become an unrestricted free agent, free to sign with any team.

Keep in mind Green does not have to accept the required tender and it’s unlikely the Nuggets would offer it without an understanding that Green would play overseas and delay his NBA debut for another year, allowing the Nuggets to retain his draft rights.

Denver could create a roster spot by waiving Quincy Miller before the season, but his strong showing in Vegas and continued development make that a nonsensical and highly unlikely move. The more likely scenario is a trade in which Denver creates a roster spot by either dumping salary or sending out more players than they receive in return, such as a two-for-one.

It is a little early to speculate on Green’s future, but his immediate path to the NBA got a bit murkier with the Nate signing. The Nuggets still have time before deciding his fate and I would expect them to find a way to keep his rights or use them as an asset in a trade. With Nate Robinson providing another competent ballhandler and three-point shooter, the Nuggets have comfortable depth at both guard spots and it appears bringing in Green for his rookie season next year is not in the cards at this time.

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David Walker

Freshman at FSU. Love the Nuggets, the beach, and the game that involves a ball that occasionally goes into the hoop.
  • TomRMC

    > it won’t be until this offseason is over that we will be allowed to step back and take in the whole picture.

    This is the main reason I’ve refrained from trying to analyze each move in depth. The most important thing will be to see how all of these moves fit together, and we won’t know that until they’ve all happened.

    If this is the last roster move (aside from possibly retaining Mozgov), it’s puzzling. If it’s the leadup to a deal that sends out Andre Miller, it will make more sense.

    • herpderpnuggets

      Yeah a trade is definitely coming soon, I just don’t know how it’s gonna go down. And who would we trade for?

      • Ricardo

        I agree, the nuggets may be trying to collect solid contributing players to use them in a trade to bring in an all-star player at the trade deadline.

        • herpderpnuggets

          the only thing is i dont want them to dig a hole before the trade deadline….might as well do it now

      • Bricks

        I like Ty’s comment earlier today: “But you know, the staff and the Kroenkes, they have a picture. They’re just painting it right now. When we see the end product, I’m pretty sure it’s going to be good.” http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/22/ty-lawson-kenneth-faried-excited-by-the-nuggets-addition-of-nate-robinson/

        Can anyone say, Not done yet . . .

    • Trevor

      It’s my opinion that we should be able to see the picture pretty well as the team is pieced together. All these signings are just little details and any other ones we make are going to be just as small. If we make a trade, that could paint a new picture but I don’t see how it will be a better one. There aren’t any quality players on the block. If there is a plan to turn the Nuggets into a contender it should be blatantly evident by the moves we have made.

      • Mikey K

        You really can’t say none are on the block. You never know what’s being debated behind closed doors with other front offices who are staring at their own cap issues now or down the road a season or two as the tax is now a major factor. Even if not now, by the deadline, some team may decide to blow it all up and someone suddenly is available. It’s wait and see time.

  • Scott

    Like this move! 40% 3pt off the bench compared to Millers 100% (in his mind).

    • DavidRMC

      The fear is that last year was a charade as he was a middling to bad three point shooter for his career before last season. Also NateRob may challenge Dre in the “complete lack of self awareness” category.

      • Clive Lee

        Dre is completely aware of what he’s doing, 100% of the time. It’s just that he’s too slow / doesn’t care

  • Trevor

    At least it is only 2 years and a very moveable contract. I’d rather have Andre Miller as the back up PG and I’ve been yelling for him to get moved for the past 1.5 seasons. I’m going to tear my hair out in fustration if Nate and Ty are on the court at the same time on a regular basis. Oh well…

  • CoryW

    Agreed TomRMC. We gave too many assets and holes unplugged. Only time will tell how the roster is finalized. Our management is smart and will make a trade happen that clears up our roster for the future IMO. Eager to see how this turns out but no matter what our team will win. Just because we lost Iggy via Golden State doesnt mean we cant win. Our players are solid and will develop as the season progresses. I predict a good year. Playoffs definitely but wheLawsonre is to be figured out. #Lawson’sTEAM

  • Michael

    “The money for Robinson is fair and like J.J. Hickson it seems like the
    Nuggets are buying into their latest seasons as the beginning of a
    favorable trend and not an anomaly.”

    If you look at Hickson’s stats he has been ‘trending’ upwards every year (when he has played regular minutes), it’s just that last year was a bigger than expected jump mainly due to the amount of playing time he received.

    If there are no further moves by the end of September then Erick Green is a Free Agent as we don’t have a roster spot for him assuming that Mozzy re-signs. I don’t know what to expect in the deal (if there is one), I can’t see any team taking Miller on his own, maybe they S&T Mozzy along with Miller to someone and that is why the Mozzy signing is taking so long? as they are trying to sort out a partner and deal specifics?

  • Vitor Lago

    Seems like this team is now loaded with undersized big men and combo guards. It will be an interesting season to say the least.

  • J.J.

    What the hell are the Nuggets doing? I, too, keep looking for some grand plan, but see nothing. HAS to be a trade in mind, because two sub-6′ point guards is a recipe for disaster. Actually, I just don’t see how any of our offseason moves make us better OR have future benefits (either through trade chips, increased cap room, etc.), but if I am missing something, someone please help me. Just seems like we’re getting a lot worse . . .

  • heykyleinsf

    Count me in as excited and loving this!!
    I also think.. this was the most exciting and gritty performance in the playoffs.
    (anyone still care about how players do in the playoffs?)
    AWESOME!!!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/27/bulls-nets-nate-robinson-playoffs-game-4_n_3171260.html

    • heykyleinsf
    • Bricks

      I wrote this last week when I learned the Nugs were talking to NateRob: Not one Nugs player from last year’s roster has playoff experience beyond Round 1. All 4 players that KronCon has brought in have playoff game experience well past the first round: Arthur with Memphis, Hickson with Cleveland, Foye with LAC, and Robinson with Chicago and a Champ series with Boston. Guys with VISION for playing deep in the playoffs is a positive for Nugs Nation.

      • herpderpnuggets

        iggy was with philly when they went to the semis

        • herpderpnuggets

          and the finals

          • heykyleinsf

            Isn’t that the Judas that screwed us?
            WTF would you want to bring him up?

          • heykyleinsf

            uh…. no.

        • Bricks

          I meant players that remained on our roster for the 2013-14 season. But good catch. I didn’t specify that very clearly.

          • herpderpnuggets

            yeah you wouldve forgot about c brew and a miller too

            • Bricks

              Actually Miller’s been to playoffs 9 times, and I don’t believe any of his teams made it past Round 1. Correct me if I’m wrong.

              • herpderpnuggets

                when he played with the sixers with iggy

              • Bricks

                Don’t believe the Sixers teams you’re referring to made it out of the 1st round. Lost to Pistons in ’08, to Magic in ’09 — both in round 1. Didn’t make playoffs in ’10, lost to Heat in 1st round in ’11. Am I missing something re: AMiller getting past round 1?

              • heykyleinsf

                not only that … he’s not here.
                It’s like.. go follow the Warriors then.
                On this team.. this team today..
                not yesterday..
                we now have someone with clutch playoff experience.
                I’m not sure wtf herpder was getting at though..
                any way you look at it.. totally moot what ever Iggy did
                the asshole is gone.

              • heykyleinsf

                again. No.

            • heykyleinsf

              Corey didn’t play with Dallas.
              I’m not sure if you’re talking about Minnesota though.
              but rode the pine in Dallas.
              Sure he’s got a ring.. but so does Chris Andersen
              I like both Brew and Bird.. but for all intents and purposes..
              Bricks point remains salient.
              IDK what you’re thinking about with AMiller though.

        • heykyleinsf

          Iggy advanced to the 2nd round the last year he played for the Sixers, where his team lost to the Bulls. Other than that.. all one and dones all his career. Iggy is nothing special in the playoffs and if you ask me.. the most over-rated player in the NBA.

          • LBJ

            Yeah, right.

            • heykyleinsf

              thank you.

          • Mers

            Didn’t iggy make it to rd 2 with the warriors last year? I thought he swapped teams in game 5.

            • heykyleinsf

              Awesome dude.

          • heykyleinsf

            butthurt Iggy fans.
            FOLLOW HIM THERE.

  • David Acker

    I love this move. Now Miller must go! nuff said

    • herpderpnuggets

      miller is not leaving…connelly himself said it….

      • loops

        I didn’t see him speak on it. Link? Regardless do we really trust anything these guys in the front office say? Every year GM’s come out and say they aren’t going to trade a player only to do it. You think Nate Rob signed to be a #3 on the PG depth chart?

        • toluene hawk

          Maybe Ty is being traded…

          • herpderpnuggets

            hell no ty is the focal point of this team

          • Bricks

            You’ve had great comments on here for weeks, man. This isn’t one of ‘em. Love AMiller, but when he’s gone I think we’ll see Ty lead just fine. He backed up Chauncey for his rook season and half his soph season, and started ever since. Role player — nope — will be considered Top 5 PG in next year or two, if not already. All just my 2¢ worth . . .

        • herpderpnuggets

          i wish i had the link, i saw it on twitter.

          • heykyleinsf

            Nate Timmons tweeted it

        • eddi0

          He’s more of a SG as his 3.0 APG for career show. Not a facilitator as a traditional PG are usually bred to be, a scoring SG. Guess we don’t have to worry about bad passes from this guy (black hole).

          • loops

            4.4 assists in 25 minutes per game isn’t bad. Neither is 4.5 in 23 minutes the year before. Posting a 1.5 and 1.8 those years for turnovers. I think you are hesitant to give him some credit. I highly doubt we play a 5’9 PG at SG for more than a few minutes a game. He can make shots from the perimeter and can drive the basket. He opens up the game for other players on the court.

            • eddi0

              I think all blogs are based off opinion/hyperbole and preference. Personally, I think the Nuggets are heading into a high-octane offensive team based off the six players we’ve obtained since the end of last season. Since I started following the NBA in the early 80’s there has only been a few championship teams who haven’t had a very strong defense and defense first philosophy. Our personnel moves this off-season would leave me to believe that we are not building this team around around a defense first philosophy. This is why adding NRob infuriates me. If you enjoy watching games with highlights/dunks/alley-oops/miraculous shots/incredible athleticism but likely will fizzle against strong defensive/playoff caliber teams then you might want to buy season tickets to this season. George Karl spoke a lot about defense to the press when he was head coach and I’m sure he spoke about the concept of defense to the team. But in the end we were always in the bottom third in team defense. A lot of talk about defense doesn’t mean the players are now playing better defense. Coaching players who are born offensive players to play sound defense is about the same thing as taking an Eskimo and moving him to Tucson and telling him to live/thrive. It doesn’t usually work, not even close. We have a bunch of offensive born talents some with great athleticism even, none of which are defense first players (ala Bruce Bowen, Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, etc.). It’s too much to ask Coach Shaw to change a player’s personality, we just need different players to change the culture here just like OKC did and from what I’m seeing the NO Pelicans are in the process of.

              With all that, please tell me how we have improved defensively this off-season? For defense wins championships in all major sports, that can be proven.

              • loops

                I don’t think it’s possible to improve on defense when you lose Corey Brewer and Andre Igoudala. Two of the top defensive guys out there at their respective positions. Who was on the market that we could have obtained that would have improved from there? I can’t think of anyone.

              • eddi0

                Iguodala was a big loss, very big shoes to fill defensively and probably the best defender on the market this offsetting. If you lose your best defender and now have a larger hole at defense because your team was not that good defensively what do you do? You could try to find some short term players who are above average defenders or maybe you trade up in the draft to get the best defenders in the draft. But why would you sign a group of guys to 2-5 year deals that are clearly offensive only gifted players? Even if there were not a lot of defensive players why would sign one dimensional offensive players? When you’re in the top three every year in almost all offensive categories why would get more of the same type of players? Sign anyone who at a least has shown good defensive instincts. Luc Richard Mba Amoute was a guy we targeted a few summers ago, great defender, traded to Kings this month. They are out there you just have to make a commitment to defense, including personnel moves.

              • dynamo.joe

                This FO, like most, believes it can ‘teach’ defense. The fact is only a tiny number of coaches are really able to change, at a fundamental level, the way players play. Now we get to wait and see if Shaw is one of those elite coaches.

              • eddi0

                Well said Joe. Will need a complete paradigm shift from Shaw on down to instill the importance of defense. I personally don’t think we have the right players but I think Wilson Chandler at this point is our best defensive player with the right skillset/physical attributes/potential to one day be close to elite. His post defense is the best we’ve got and when he plays other SF/PF’s (should never defend SG’s) he has shown good fundamentals. Not sure I can co-sign for any other player, at least defensively.

              • Bricks

                You might be correct about Chandler’s defense, although Gallo is no slouch, esp. on the wing. Last year, our 5 best defenders were, in order, Iggy, Brewer, Chandler, Gallo, Koufos.

              • eddi0

                Prob right and 3 are gone and one is out until December at earliest which leaves Ill Will. Ludicrous to think with our losses in defensive players and pluses in offensive players that we have not recreated the 1985 Denver Nuggets who averaged over 120/game but couldn’t advance in the playoffs. Sound familiar?

              • loops

                Well there was a rumor that we were trying to trade Faried for Oladipo who many considered the best defender in the draft.

              • Bricks

                I’d pay close attention to that deal. Where’d you hear it?

              • loops

                That was around draft time. It was mentioned by denverpost beat writers that we were turned down. My bad for not making that clear.

              • eddi0

                Iguodala was a big loss, very big shoes to fill defensively and probably the best defender on the market this offsetting. If you lose your best defender and now have a larger hole at defense because your team was not that good defensively what do you do? You could try to find some short term players who are above average defenders or maybe you trade up in the draft to get the best defenders in the draft. But why would you sign a group of guys to 2-5 year deals that are clearly offensive only gifted players? Even if there were not a lot of defensive players why would sign one dimensional offensive players? When you’re in the top three every year in almost all offensive categories why would get more of the same type of players? Sign anyone who at a least has shown good defensive instincts. Luc Richard Mba Amoute was a guy we targeted a few summers ago, great defender, traded to Kings this month. They are out there you just have to make a commitment to defense, including personnel moves.

              • Bricks

                Blockbuster deals would have had to have been arranged to bring in guys like TAllen, JButler, ABradley. Essentially these guys were not available. I would welcome GHayward, and somebody’s been mentioning RBrewer on this forum. They all would be the type of young, defensive-minded players Nugs need at 2.

              • eddi0

                Still ticked about TAllen, if we hadn’t had put all our eggs into Iggys basket we could have had him for $5M/yr. What could have been…

              • CoryW

                We need Team defense. Spurs have Timmy and Leonard correct? but who else is a great defender….no one. We need a system. Same situation in Miami and what Boston had. Systems work when followed. A defense like we had last year with Iggy is unacceptable. Even with the likes of Gallo, Chandler, and Brewer we had a bad D. It’s all about the system you have in set for your guys to excute. You telling me Tiago Splitter good at D?

              • eddi0

                Tiago certainly is not a good one on one defender but he is a good team defender, but between Danny Green, Leonard, Duncan and Ginobli they have four of the better defenders in the league. Better example, OK has Perkins, Ibaka, Sefolosha, Westbrook and Durant as their starting 5. All five are superb defenders and play outstanding team defense. Probably a matter of perspective but I’d much rather have a defense first players who buy into defense wins championships than a team of great offensive players who could care less about defense (ala JR Smith, Andre Miller, NRob). Those guys are a dime a dozen.

              • CoryW

                I completely agree with you on the players mentioned as to team defending. But you mentioned players that arent great other than Ibaka. We need that system that preaches defense because it does win championships as you say.

      • David Acker

        If that’s the case this front office is dumb as dirt!

  • eddi0

    Effffffffffffff…as in failure. We have questionable defense and we just signed the king of matador defense? . Looks like I’ll be watching the Nugs from home this year.

    • loops

      You talk as if he is worse than Andre Miller on defense. Who out there was a better value at the point?

      • eddi0

        My point was, When you have a smoldering fire (defense) why do douse it with gasoline (NRob)? Layering poor defensive players is not a solution. TONEY DOUGLAS would have been a much more logical solution, defensive first PG. Oh wait, we already had that, his name was Julyan Stone.

        • loops

          Julyan Stone has done nothing in the NBA. First of all. He also failed a physical for Toronto and his a free agent.

          As for Toney Douglas, he is just not very good. There’s a reason he only got a one year deal for 1.6 mil. Nate Rob essentially keeps the pace going when Ty leaves the court. Toney Douglas is an undersized 2 guard. He has failed to develop as a point guard.

        • Bricks

          Douglas has virtually disappeared since being a Knick. He’ll back up Curry in GSW — and to me this will be the Warriors’ biggest weakness. They’ll be forced to play Curry 40+ min/gm because Douglas will not provide adequate backup at PG.

          • eddi0

            Read a little more on TDouglas, there was an article last week that insinuated that the Warriors signed Douglas excuse he is of the few players who give Steph Curry a hard time. Douglas is not a typical PG in that he will not give out a lot of assists but he is one of the best on the ball defenders in the league. Between Lawson/Miller/Robinson we have very little defense at PG, would have given some balance to our lopsided roster.

  • Ckwizard

    This is a good signing given the make up of this team. If Robinson is the primary back up to Ty then our Nuggets are poised to keep the pressure on the opposing defenses…. Defense is a team game in Basketball and how a team performs on defense is more about culture than players and it is the coaches that will have to establish the culture. Having short point gaurds dosn’t break your team defense but in basketball sometimes an aggressive offense is a good defense. Westbrook might be a good defender but get him in foul trouble and he will play “matador defense” also so heck between Ty and Robinson ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!
    Couple this with Faried and Hickson this season is going to be fun!

  • Tom

    If Andre miller is not moved I don’t understand this move…

  • kwelitysoul

    Of course nobody understands any move, that’s why we’re typing fodder about a cheap signing for a dynamic player. A guy with that PER and proven playoff performances I’ll take. He can run the show when Ty isn’t on the floor and could potentially win an extra 5-10 regular season games as well. Julyan Stone and Andre Miller as alternatives?! That’s what I don’t understand…

    • Daniel Yost

      Julyan Stone is long gone. Masai stole him away to Toronto. And Andre Miller is as good as gone. The FO is obviously not going to say “yeah we’re trading Miller” as that would hurt his trade value. It may not be before the start of the regular season, but by the trade deadline miller and one of our new PF’s (Hickson/Arthur) will be packaged for something.

  • googergieger

    Well I for one am excited. I mean not for this signing or whatever the fuck it seems we are doing, but because this year I’m going to be watching every Nugget game drunk enough to be legally dead.

  • Ckwizard

    All right so how about this video game line up , Ty at the point , Robinson as off gaurd , Hickson and Faried as the forwards and McGee as the Center…. This would be just fun fun fun…. Alley OOP might be the most “semi pro” line up ever but come on the potential for some crazy freaky fast flying basketball coupled with the occasional asthma attack has 5 on 5 NBA Jam championship written all over it!!

    • CoryW

      Agree with the crazy things we can accomplish athletically with the Oops and whatnot, but I’d much rather have a system(a la SA) than just human pogo sticks. Systems with effectiveness win, that’s what we need. Offensively and definitely defensively.

      • Ckwizard

        Maybe just Maybe Shaw can bring the systems and culture necessary to foster that kind of environment… Time will tell in regards to this management/coaching makeup. I am just excited that Karl is Gone, a littler numbed about everything else this off season though.. But I do like Robinson.

        • CoryW

          No more one and dones!!!…..hopefully anyways. It’s crazy how he had a record almost like a reputation for losing in the first round and he stuck around so long and is given so much respect. Of course HOF ya know but cmon it’s not like he was made of championship stuff. He could win in the regular season for sure though. Strong man but the Playoffs just weren’t his thing.

          • dynamo.joe

            Well, I think we can accommodate your “no more one and done” by not making the playoffs this year.

            • CoryW

              We have young talent developing into better players and an all star calliber pg. A new coach with a system to implement and the kind of.play that wins regular season games. Im not predicting top four, but name me 8 teams better than the Nuggets.

              • Bricks

                Here are 10 that COULD be better:
                SA, OKC, MEM, LAC, HOU, GS, MIN, DAL, NO, PHO
                All of these teams were either playoff teams last year and/or arguably made better off-season moves than the Nugs. Don’t get too cocky until the Nugs prove themselves on the court in October.

              • CoryW

                Pre-Iggy we made playoffs. We had Aaron Afflalo and Al Harrington. We just got back those two.players in Foye, Nate, and Hickson. We have playoff births in 10 or 11 straight seasons. LA Lakers 2012=no chemistry and last day playoff birth. Just because teams acquire talent that impact greatly thier starting 5 doesnt mean they jumpp in playoffs immediately. NO, MIN and PHO are teams that have to mesh for them to even make the playo.ffs. We are proven they arent.

              • Bricks

                I don’t have to remind you that this Nuggets team is practically starting at Ground Zero. New coach, new players, new FO, new off/def systems. Absolutely zero idea how this team will gel, and infinitely less idea whether or not they’ll get into post season. BTW, I believe the Nugs will make the playoffs, and even though I’m a fan, I believe there is plenty of evidence to suggest that 10 other teams in the West could be better than us this year. (Also, BTW, I mentioned LAC not LAL, who are not a Top 10 in West.)

              • CoryW

                Not starting from Zero because he isn’t changing much of the offense( still keeping the Run and Gun style but adding Halfcourt offense to that). So we don’t have to score 10 seconds into the shot clock. I was referring to the 2012 LAL because of their Presumed dominance after getting howard. NO has new players and so does PHO, DAL, and MIN. Only difference is new system. But not entirely as I stated above. He is combining his system offensively and doing what he wants with the D. Really to be honest I don’t believe either team with exception to MIN that could be better than us.

              • Bricks

                Hope you’re right, Cory.

              • dynamo.joe

                We have 1 guaranteed returning starter on the books right now (most people around here seem to want Faried to come off the bench, not sure why, but…). That doesn’t seem too proven.

                TWolves should have been a good playoff team last year, but just soooo many injuries. But that team came together here and there in between injuries. If healthy, they will hit the ground running.

              • Daniel Winston

                NO, PHO, DAL and Minny I wouldn’t be too worried about. But hey, you never know.

              • dynamo.joe

                OKC, HOU, LAC, SAS, MEM, UTA, I think are all definitely better. We will be fighting with DAL, MIN, NOP, and Maybe GSW for the final 2 spots.

                I know no one will believe the UTA, pick, but they got better by getting rid of Millsap and Jefferson in favor of Kanter and Favors. Everyone hates Biedrins and he is over paid, but he is a capable 10 minute a game backup center. Jefferson is still a rotation quality player.

                Everything you read about them says they are tanking and only took on those contracts to get draft picks, but I don’t think that will be the way it ends up. And they have incentive to play well because it makes the draft picks they picked up from GSW/Den better picks.

              • LBJ

                Jefferson is washed up is not rotation quality. Biedrins has done nothing since getting his big contract.

              • dynamo.joe

                Wrong, they don’t score anymore, but they still rebound, steal block, don’t turn the ball over, and on the rare occasion when they do score, they do it efficiently.

              • Bricks

                Don’t see it, Joe. Utah’s situation looks as bad as any in the West. Since they’re cleaning house wish they’d take AMiller and Moz for GHayward.

              • LBJ

                Why would Utah do something foolish like that??

              • Bricks

                Wishing, that’s all

              • dynamo.joe

                Millsap is pretty good, but al Jefferson was wildly over-rated. They upgraded by getting rid of those guys.

                If the front office is smart they know they aren’t tanking and so they wouldn’t ever trade Hayward.

                If they believe they are tanking, which doesn’t make sense given that most of their draft picks are from other teams, then maybe they trade for Miller and only trade for Moz if he is expiring (a one year contract).

          • Bricks

            Wow. Already Shaw’s gonna lead the Nugs to places GK could never take ‘em. Seems pretty premature, but I hope you’re right.

            • CoryW

              We didn’t need change at the helm. We could have rode out the GK era and made the playoffs in countless more seasons. Instead of improvement by player….the Nuggets sought improvement by coach. Gained role players that can contribute in different areas and, I think, as a team can supply the wins at a playoff rate. Iggy was a role player with GREAT defense. Offensively a liability if not passing or leaping. If we would have kept Iggy that would’ve been awesome. But don’t deny the deficiencies he had. Our wins will drop but our TEAM will get better progressively as they adjust to the system. We still have that high octane offense no matter who is our coach. But our defense can only get better from here. Again as the team adjusts to a new system because we still a team of depth as we always have and a team that can put the ball in the hoop.

            • Daniel Winston

              Not really. Doesn’t take much to go farther than GK.

              • Bricks

                Yeah, those Rd. 1 NBA playoff series are a cinch. I’m all in with Shaw, but I think I’ll let him finish one season as a head coach before I commend him as a better playoff coach than . . . well, anyone.

              • CoryW

                Not saying he is a better playoff coach yet. Just from the relief of not having GK I believe it is possible he can be. HE comes from championships in LA so hopefully he carries that here. Oh and we st have been better than all the teas stated above namely: NO, Utah, MIN, PHO

              • Trevor

                To be fair more than half(53%) of the NBA makes the first round every year. It’s not like football where 20 of 32 teams are left out. And all but two of those years Karl was sent home in embarrassing fashion and one of the other two he didn’t coach in the playoffs. This paints a very average picture of him. The bar is not as high as it seems for Shaw.

              • Paul Highum

                “To be fair” to Karl, he only got the type of team he wanted these past few years and I wouldn’t describe the game seven loss to the Lakers as “embarrassing”.

              • Bricks

                So you’re saying 26.5% of all NBA teams WIN that cake-walk 1st round series. Oh that’ll just be as simple as pie for Brian.

                (Actually, Trevor, you make some good points in your post, and, like you, I’m hoping new coach, new team get over that damn hump next year.)

    • Mikey K

      Except that the point is to win games, not take up half of SportsCenter’s Top 10 list every night. Great scoring 110-120 a night. Gets crappy when you give up 120-130.

      Still, I’m taking an open mind to the season until we see what things look like around the AS break. Then again, I still think something bigger is brewing.

      • toluene hawk

        You’re forgetting that the Nugget’s have the French Mamba on their team.

        • Trevor

          Why do you hate the young guys?

  • CoryW

    It’s a process…we just have to be patient enough to let it unfold. With the championship pedigree management claims to be headed towards, we have to trust them until proven guilty of incompetence. No championship is won overnight it takes games, seasons and progress in the right direction from the right people. I like our future with Shaw than when it was with GK. Our team will compete and will have a system to flourish in, whether that be sooner or later the system is grasped by the team. That’s what we can count on.

    • Bricks

      Nice, level-headed, comments. But prematurely pressing the panic button is so much fun, and makes one appear so radically hoops intelligent.

      • dynamo.joe

        Really? I thought he was using the sarcasm font.

  • dagus1976

    Here’s the problem. We have no real role players. You know, players that do something really, really well and don’t care that they aren’t the best at everything else. Instead, we have many talented and young players who still don’t know who they really are as basketball players, and broke into the league with “upside”. It really looks like a recipe for middling results, and no direction. We need to find a star player and build around him. I’m all for tanking this season and taking our chances with a lottery pick this next summer. However, I think that we find a way to grind out 40-45 wins because you know there is no way Brian Shaw is going to look like a chump in his first season. This will probably net us the 7-9 seed and have no real chance of landing who we need.
    Mediocrity is where you DO NOT want to be in the NBA. And we are gearing up for it.

    • Mikey K

      Again, we need to see what develops. To make any decrees now is silly. I will agree, with less games than last season. I don’t see 60 games. OKC and MAYBE the Clippers can get there. That’s all we can say for sure.

    • toluene hawk

      The French Mamba is a Nugget, why the anxiety?

      • Bricks

        Yeah, E4, baby

    • CoryW

      We have to allow our team to grow and see what we have. Fournier, McGee, Lawson, J-Ham, and all the new acquisitions. Why do people act like Iggy was the Bosh that left Raptors. We lost others like Brewer, Stone, Koufos along with Iggy. But replaced them with different quality players at cheap, moveable(if need be) priced players. Iggy’s defensive impact was super, but, as you could see, DOESN’T MATTER if our team defense stinks. Our team has to build chemistry yes, but largely our core players are here. We have Lawson, Mr.Bernie himself, Faried, Gallo. We just need a direction for this young team to go in and Shaw and KronCon have to provide the Champions way.

      • LBJ

        Different players at cheap prices is another way of saying crappy players that no one else wanted.

        • CoryW

          You forgot the word “quality.” They can help. The price we signed them at is even sweeter. If they dont work someone can use them because of thier skillsets. We got them, doesnt mean they had no one after thier services just means they signed with us.

          • LBJ

            I consider both foye and Nate below average NBA players. Utah didn’t want Foye back and the Bulls (and all other teams) only offered him the minimum.

            • CoryW

              What do you mean by average though. I mean most role players are average. Some role players can be great. Never said they were studs just quality players. They can provide what we need though, which is 3’s.

              • LBJ

                Nuggets need players that can post up an score and guys that can get to the rim. Without these kind of players we aren’t going to get 3s.

              • Bricks

                Ty, Gallo and Ill Will get to the rim. Hickson improves our post play considerably. Good lord, we led the league in points in the paint last year — no excuse for piss poor long-range shooting, except we were just bad. Cory is correct. Foye and NateRob will help there.

              • LBJ

                While we led the NBA in points in the paint, we were last in post up points. In other words, we scored off penetration. We lost Iggy, C Brew and will not have Gallo to start the year – in other words, a lot of our penetration is gone. Without someone getting to the rim or posting up – we are not going to have a lot of good 3 looks.

              • Bricks

                Clutch long-dist. shooting was one among several needs for the Nugs. And because a guy is called a “role” player doesn’t make him an avg. player, it simply means he fills a unique niche, and has a particular strength, that can be utilized to better the team. Role players can be studs and/or play starter’s minutes. For example, Iggy was a role player on the US Olympic team, Ginobili’s a role player on the Spurs, etc.

              • CoryW

                I see what you mean. We have those players as you mentioned we have a team made of role players. Other than probably Lawson and Gallo who have the ability to be an all star and really good player. We have to figure out our stud role players and see where player development brings our some of our players this season(i.e. McGee, Faried, Fournier, J-Ham).

              • CoryW

                No true post layer yet hopefully we have too much depth at too many positions right now so a trade is needed so we can possibly get that player. Our team is under construction. Lawson and Fournier can develop the ability to pass out of rim attacks though and get better at their finishing. Don’t forget about Gallo. Those two things you mentioned though are a definite need.

            • Daniel Winston

              Foye set Jazz records for 3 pointers made in a season. And guess what our biggest weakness was last year…

              • LBJ

                And why did they not want to keep him???

              • Bricks

                Biggest weaknesses last year? 1. Making proper adjustments (coaching) in the Playoffs . . . 2. Defending the 3 and pick/roll . . . 3. Post scoring . . . then, 4. Long-range clutch shooting. Hickson/Arthur will help with #3, Foye and NateRob with #4. Have to wait and see if #s 1 & 2 can be remedied.

        • Daniel Winston

          Ask Brooklyn how they feel about Nate Rob, none of the players we acquired his off season are anything resembling “crap”.

          • LBJ

            Like his 5 previous teams, the Bulls had enough of Nate. I imagine the Nuggets will feel the same way before his 2 year deal expires.
            If he is so damn good – how were we able to get him for $2m a year?

            • CoryW

              Dude catches a bad wrap. He has been consistent for all the teams he played for. He balled for CHI last year. I’m glad to have a guy that thrives in the moment and can spark better than J.R. at times. His height is and issue but don’t knock a guy for his height. This guy has the heart and will to win. He was just looking for a payday he couldn’t obtain. Not because teams didn’t want him. New CBA.

              • LBJ

                The new CBA didn’t stop Iggy from getting his money. The guy has actually earned his bad rap – that is why he didn’t get paid.

    • Bricks

      With all due respect, Nugs have nearly ALL role players — except Gallo and Ty — players who do one or two things decent. Whether they “care” or not about being the best at everything, they’re just not. . . . and please don’t say “tank the season.” I”m in no mood to go off about that . . . I’ll be nice . . . respected opinion.

      • dagus1976

        Disagree. Outside of Faried, who knows he is there to hustle and rebound, and Miller, who “thinks” he’s there to drop dimes, we have a team full of guys who thinks they are jack of all trades players, but don’t excel at any one thing. McGee, Lawson, Gallinari, and Hamilton all have serious limitations, but seem to have no clue what those might be.
        I can just picture a guy like Popovich coming in here and really defining a role for each guy, and helping them understand the value of that role.
        And I think that was the problem with GK’s coaching style. He took a guy like Gallo, and tried to turn him into a slasher. Gallo would excel as a spot up shooter, but that’s not where GK wanted him in the offense. Chandler is much better suited to that game, but he was the one who seemed inclined to settle for jumpers.
        Let’s hope that Shaw can help define these guys to where they best are suited to do the most damage.

        • Bricks

          Sorry, GK did a great job of isolating the strengths of his players and utilizing them. No Nug player creates better with the ball than Gallo. It’s important for him to have the ball in his hands, draw fouls, and spread the floor. You’ve just eliminated several dynamic aspects of his game if you make him merely a spot-up shooter. Again, not trying to disrespect you personally, but I disagree with so many of the things that you just posted that it would take too long for me to comment on them all.

          • dagus1976

            Lawson creates better with the ball than Gallo.
            Miller creates better with the ball than Gallo.
            Chandler creates better with the ball than Gallo.
            Fournier creates better with the ball than Gallo.
            Not Counting Robinson, or anyone else that’s new to the team.

            • Bricks

              More quality outcomes when Gallo touches the ball than any other Nugget, including Ty. Led team in % of personal fouls drawn per possession, led team in FT% and FT made, led team in +/- (after Iggy), led team in 3PT FG made, led team in least TOV per possession (after Kouf). I want the ball in Gallo’s hands as much as possible.

    • Trevor

      Tanking is better than the direction the Nuggets are headed currently.

      • CoryW

        Tanking is not a better direction. I’d rather see what our team is made of cause we still ooze potential with several players. Tanking just puts you in the position to “attempt” to get a guy that’s the next big. Tanking would gives us years of futility and possibly years upon years of futility.

        • Trevor

          I wanted to see what they are made of as well but all these new additions make no sense in terms of building a contender and in my opinion are pushing us into futility. I would rather play the young guys big minutes win or lose. Figure out if this potential is going to bear fruit. If they disappoint then we have a decent draft pick to retool or use in a trade. Loading up on below average players with multi-year contracts is just going to put us in NBA hell (1st rd fodder – just missing the playoffs). It’s not tanking in terms of trying to lose games I want but I’m okay with losses this season if it comes with player development and finding out if we have guys that can get us over the hump in the near future.

          • Bricks

            If I’m reading you correctly, you’d rather the Nugs do nothing to improve this year’s team except develop the players who were on the roster prior to the FA pickups and if they attempt to acquire a FA or a player via trade then it should only be an All-Star caliber guy. You’re saying, in effect, the Nugs should play the youngins a lot and risk losing this year, intentionally try to not make the playoffs if they’re only going to be a 6-8 seed, and store up all personnel assets and $$ for a home-run acquisition and a lottery pick next year.

            Sorry, that philosophy just doesn’t fly in the worlds of professional sports and entertainment, and it’s completely irresponsible to paying fans, sponsoring corporations, advertisers, the TV network, and consumers of beer and gear — none of whom are the least bit tolerant of a team taking a season off in hopes that they might be in a better position to win next year. Tanking means losses of multi-millions of dollars for every sector of a professional sports franchise, and that’s very bad business.

            • Trevor

              That’s pretty accurate Bricks. I see that as the Nuggets best shot at a title. I understand the business side of things and how my plan conflicts with it. There are some great basketball minds that agree with my line of thinking but I realize the Nuggets aren’t interested in going down that path. I’m a fan though and not a sponsor that will lose exposure/money with a down year. I would buy tickets to go see the young guys struggle, but I’m a die-hard and realize there are a lot of people who wouldn’t.

              Then again a star would be good for business ;)

  • Bricks

    Hey, Gimli played some mean defense at Gondor. Just think what 3 dwarfs in Denver could do!

  • Evan Woodruff

    All this dang talk about defense. Where are you getting that the Nuggets were HORRIBLE defensively?

    PPG?

    That’s skewed. They had the fastest pace in the league. Fast pace = opponents get more shots. More shots = more points. This has NOTHING to do with defense.

    If you watched every game like I did, you would see their defense was very very solid. Maybe not top 10 in the league, but not bottom 10 either.

    Some games were better then others, they had trouble guarding the 3pt line, which also skewed some stats. They, however, stopped and stalled a lot of other aspects.

    I will give Karl his credit. The team Defense was very good. Nuggets got beat most consistently because of one of two things. 1. Young players missing rotations to leave an open three. or 2. Kenny or McGee getting bullied inside. Or KK not being able to block shots when McGee isn’t in.

    I believe that will soon change.

    Also. When chandler returned the defense got a lot better.

    Another example is the game in Denver against Memphis. Huge game at the time that secured the Nuggets 3rd seed. If you watched it, Memphis forced Denver to play their slow, defensive style. Yet the Nuggets grinded out a win.This proved that they can play defense, very well, and are respectable in the half court. Two things falsely claimed to be a Nuggets weakness.But they did this in numerous games throughout the season, and for long stretches during games.

    As far as the Warriors series goes. GK handled it well, and the knock for him not getting out of the first round is kind of stupid. How many of those seasons was his team actually the favorite? Think about that for a second. Anyway. How many teams in the WC would have won their series had their Leading Scorer gotten injured? Lakers didn’t, OKC almost didn’t and it wasn’t even their leading scorer. Look at the games vs GSW Gallo torched them. You’re gunna start jack on Galo? You simply cannot go small with Galo starting. He was their weakness.

    Also Nuggets biggest weakness, 3pt shot. GSW’s only chance in games? 3pt shot. Fluke series, unlucky and really unfortunate match up without the Nuggets secret weapon.

    I’m just annoyed about all this talk about bad defense, GK being a bad playoff coach, Nuggets not being good this year. CMON. They lost iggy. big deal. Nuggets will be FINE. All the young players got better, and the new ones are solid too.

    Don’t like Miller too much, though he doesn’t deserve as much flack as he’s given.

    AMAZING signing on Robinson btw. This man is clutch, and will win more games then he costs them. One of the most explosive players in the NBA. Don’t believe me? Go rewatch him jump over dwight howard.

    anyway rant over. Go Nuggets.

    • Bricks

      Got to vote you up for a pretty good rant. Don’t agree with all points, but I’m with ya about the rap against last year’s D. Up-tempo transition teams always allow opponents to score a lot of points. Denver did a damn good job D-ing up while playing that style of game, better than most running teams have traditionally done. They won their games by an avg. of 5. I’ll take that. And yes, one of best games of the year was when we beat Memphis at their own game, but you have to admit it was an anomaly.

      • Evan Woodruff

        Thanks man, coming off the top of my head… I think I recall some stats suggesting the Nuggets had a pretty low opponent FG%. Top half of the league anyway, and a top 10 defensive efficiency rating. not 100% sure about this but I vaguely remember it from somewhere. I just want to stress do not look at PPG at all, look at efficiency, and OPP FG%, more stress on the latter. PPG means nothing because it’s dictated by pace, not defense. Oh also look at PP100 possessions, or whatever it is. I think Nuggets did respectably well in that category also.

    • CoryW

      I understand we weren’t favored in all our first round series but we had a top 5 player on our team in Carmelo whom e were building around and he was unable to coach them to the 2 round other than once. When he got traded new ballgame. Although he should’ve had something for Golden State We should’ve won that series. Too our defense wasn’t that bad on paper. But we knew that our team was going to allow easy points in the paint and wide open threes to our detriment. You have to coach that.

      • LBJ

        Melo is not a five player – he wasn’t in Denver and he is not with the Knicks. He didn’t even get make the all star team until 2008 (I’m not counting injury replacement in 2007), and he has never been all NBA first team.

        • CoryW

          Melo could impact the game like most couldn’t. He was a clutch shooter. He could drop 30 on any night. You have to build top 5 assessment might not be accurate but he was definitely unstoppable when it comes to scoring. You have to develop these guys. They can’t just come into the NBA and not be groomed into better players. Obviously GK had to have some hand in Melo’s development. Mike Woodson was doing something right last year that GK couldn’t get out of Melo.

          • LBJ

            Sure Melo could drop 30 – even if it took him 30 shots to do it. He could also let some journeyman ring him up for 30 as well.

            Melo bitched an got D’Antoni fired because he wanted to actually run something besides an iso. Woodson lets Melo (or JR) do that on seemingly half the possessions. I watched the Knicks/Celtics play a few games and it was virtually unwatchable, as the Knicks struggled to beat a horrible team. Of course, when they played the Pacers – they got their ass kicked (even with their PG missing games).

    • Daniel Winston

      I think our lasting impression from last year is getting TORCHED in the playoffs, hence the defense backlash.

    • Trevor

      Well defensive rank is based off of defensive efficiency which takes into account pace. So you are completely wrong in trying to assess defense by ppg allowed and then dismissing it because if the pace factor. If you want to use ppg look at the point differential per game.

      All in all the Nugs defense was terrible. Awful at covering the 3pt line and if an offense could make 3 or more passes they guaranteed to get a good look at the rim. D rotations were pathetic, it was painfully obvious watching the games.

      • Evan Woodruff

        “So you are completely wrong in trying to assess defense by ppg allowed”
        I was actually argueing AGAINST assessing it on ppg. Not for it.
        Nice try though.

        • Trevor

          Like I said you brought it up and DISMISSED it because the Nuggets play at a faster pace… Re-read the comment and learn how to statistically decipher what is and isn’t good defense. It is simply a fact and not an attempt at anything.

      • LBJ

        Let me go back and check the standings – but I could have sworn we won 57 games last year, not 27. Our defense wasn’t terrible by any stretch of the imagination. Did we have players that missed rotations – hell yes! Did we have players that struggle against the pick and roll – sure! Do we have guys that do a piss poor job of boxing out – damn right! But every team has that happen on occasion.
        Of course, had Karl not limited the playing time of some of the biggest offenders we would have seen a lot more of the above.

        • Trevor

          http://hoopdata.com/teamdefstats.aspx

          Nuggets were 11th in defense last season. But they were bottom 3rd in allowing 3pt shots, 3pt fg%, and assist ratio. Those statistics are crucial in determining how good a teams defense is, especially in the half court. There are things the Nuggets did well on defense but when playoff basketball comes around and teams start game planing its easy to see how the Nuggets defense is an issue. GS put these deficiencies on display nationally. This is a 3pt league now, the finals were validation of such.

          • LBJ

            Spurs 27th in defensive rank, Heat 16th – this just proves what a joke these defensive stats really are.

            The finals were a validation a great players getting penetration or posting up – and when doubled making the correct pass to the open player.

            • Trevor

              You are reading it wrong… Lower number is better for defensive efficiency. Spurs are #4 Mia is #7.

              • LBJ

                Clearly, some of these stats are more important than others – especially defensive rebounding – which I agree was weak last year. Keeping teams off the FT line is another underrated stat as well – the better teams play D without fouling.
                However, allowing a lot of 3s is not necessarily a weakness and could even be considered a strength (the other team can’t get a better shot).

              • Trevor

                Forcing teams to take threes is good as long as they are contested. That was the issue for the Nuggets, teams took a large amount of threes and made them at a high percentage because they were wide open.

  • J Platt

    wow some of this doom and gloom talk has me a little annoyed. the problem with the defense last year was rotation and guys like brewer getting out of position and andre miller just not giving a damn. for the most part I think this team has guys that can d up if just given the coaching. karl has a really bad defensive scheme. “when in doubt just switch everything” always pissed me off. if shaw can give this squad an identity defensively, he will be successful. javale is the key. we saw last year how his presence on the floor intimidated other teams from going inside. just bring a scheme that can lock down the 3 pt line and you will see a big defference. my idea for mcgee is 5 minute shifts 2-3 minutes on the pine and then right back in the game.

    • LBJ

      Keep in mind we still have McGee and Faried – the 2 guys who messed up more rotations than anyone on the team.

  • Vitor Lago

    I really think this team would benefit from getting rid of Andre Miller. Nate Robinson is a capable back-up PG in the NBA, he really improved last season in running an offense. If you keep Miller you are going to have to play a combo of Lawson-Miller, Lawson-Nate, or Miller-Nate in the back court for about 15 minutes which could be a defensive nightmare. Not that Nate is a terrible defender but any combo of 2 of those 3 on the court at the same time will be a problem due to lack of size. It doesn’t seem logical to have 2 back-up PG on your team unless one is not going to play at all, and does that seem like it will happen? Miller would just quit if he didn’t get any minutes and why sign Nate if you aren’t going to give him quality playing time? Just something I thought I’d share.

  • heykyleinsf

    What is wrong with some of you here?
    St. Iguodala fkd us over.
    And you defend him to the bitter end.
    WTF is wrong w yu???

    • Paul Highum

      What exactly did he do to us?

      • heykyleinsf

        for one.. he plays somewhere else now.

        For another.. he decided to play for GSW
        DURING the playoffs.

        for a 3rd.. he insulted us by taking less
        money to play somewhere else.

        He is not a good guy, not a nice guy.
        AND HE ALWAYS WAS RIDICULOUSLY OVERRATED.
        GOOD LORD GET OVER HIM.

        • Paul Highum

          I’m fine with Iggy leaving, I just don’t see how he “fkd us over”. I don’t particularly blame him for wanting to leave a team he didn’t choose to come to as it changed the entire face of the FO. And as to your second point, if my memory serves me correctly, Iggy was one of the few players that DID show up for the Nuggets in the playoffs this year. Was the beginnings of his relationship with Mark Jackson and the Warriors on display? Sure. But he definitely played for us, and played well.

    • Bricks

      He was forced to come to Denver in the Howard/Bynum ordeal. He had no choice in the matter, and it was clear from the beginning and throughout the season that his heart was never in it as a Nugget. He got the opportunity to get outta Denver, baby. No harm no foul.