The Denver Decision: Will the Nuggets Move the Manimal?

The writing had been on the wall after the Nuggets offseason; Kenneth Faried may be expendable.

After all Denver brought in JJ Hickson, Darrell Arthur and a coach who liked to play in a system that doesn’t fit the skills that Faried has.

Finally on Monday afternoon Zach Lowe made it public that the Nuggets had been shopping Faried behind the scenes and made a prediction that Denver would in fact move the Manimal before the end of the season.

On the surface the idea doesn’t make a lot of sense.

After all, Faried absolutely impacts a game more than Hickson and Arthur even without the skillset that either player possesses. Faried is also the face of the Nuggets, the best player Denver has that is willing to be marketed since Ty Lawson likes to stay quiet and under the radar.

But a deeper look reveals a few things that make the idea of trading Faried at least understandable and many of them have to do with the way Brian Shaw and Josh Kroenke are shaping the Nuggets organization.

Make no mistake the Nuggets are done running up and down the floor like they had in the past, instead Denver will be playing slow and through the post. Shaw hasn’t hidden this idea at all and a few of his quotes from this preseason have made me wonder what his feelings on Faried are.

Take for instance these two paragraphs from Matt Moore of the Eye on Basketball blog, including a quote from Shaw:

Shaw was asked after the game if there’s a point where Faried’s energy and raw ability to make things happen with his play overcomes the gap in his polish. Shaw responded by talking in general terms instead of singling out Faried, but…

“I know that’s the main thing our bigs can bring,” Shaw said, “our energy. We’re not as polished as a lot of bigs in the post in terms of throwing the ball to them with their back to the basket and them going to get a bucket for us. But that’s the way we have to play, and they just have to get used to doing it that way, because that’s how we’re going to do it.

That doesn’t exactly reek of Shaw being a Faried fan, or even someone that thinks Faried can work in his system. And in all honestly Faried probably doesn’t.

The Manimal gets his offense in one general way, running at the rim and hoping the ball finds him once he gets there. According to mysynergysports Faried got 65.7 percent of his offense from a combination of three ways: 29.2 percent off cuts, 19.9 percent on offensive rebounds, and 16.6 percent in transition. Every single one of those things takes a similar skill for Faried to be successful, an ability to find open space, but in Shaw’s offense that won’t be his role. Shaw wants his bigs to play in one of two spots, the elbow or the block and use some type of isolation style move to get themselves a bucket. Faried can’t.

When those transition opportunities dry up, and again they will, where does Faried go for offense? Last season he posted up on only 5.1 percent of his possessions and shot a dreadful 35.9 percent in those situations and this preseason he hasn’t exactly looked more comfortable in the post. Defensively things aren’t much better as Faried struggles to make the proper rotation often, and gives up his fair share of big nights to opponents.

Yet despite all his flaws there isn’t a power forward on the Denver roster who can change a game in the way Faried can, as he showed in the third preseason game when he went back to doing the things he is successful at and went off for 22 points in 10-12 shooting with nine rebounds in only 20 minutes.

The problem for Faried is that most of the trade rumors probably are less related to his production and more related to two big, looming questions.

First, what exactly is Kenneth Faried worth? That is the question Denver has to figure out an answer to and soon, as Faried is due for a contract extension in the next year and according to Steve Kyler of Hoopsworld he is looking to cash in with a “monster contract”. The Nuggets need to decide if they value Faried as much as he values himself, while also trying to keep long term flexibility.

Right now entering the 2016-2017 season the Nuggets have two players under contract, Ty Lawson who would be entering the final year of his deal, and Evan Fournier, who would be a restricted free agent due at least a qualifying offer. So Denver ultimately needs to decide who is more important to their future between JaVale McGee, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Faried. Can they tie up massive long term money in a player they aren’t sure fits the way they want to play and is ultimately best situated to be the third or fourth best player on a good team?

The other part of the Faried decision isn’t about Faried at all but instead about how willing Kroenke would be to accept and admit a mistake. It is clear now that a big part of the reason George Karl was fired is that he wasn’t willing to play JaVale McGee a lot of minutes. So Josh pushed him out the door, giving the keys of the organization to Shaw and in all reality McGee.

That is a big problem for Faried. It is well known and documented that since the two players arrived in Denver the Nuggets have had very little extended success with both players on the floor together. What happens if that trend continues this season? Does Josh push Faried out the door so that he can have more time to prove that JaVale was worth all the chaos and upheaval?

That is what makes this question so hard to answer. In the end the decisions to be made aren’t about the impact Faried makes this season, it is what Denver thinks he can become, what he is worth and ultimately what they think the answer to the Faried/JaVale question is.

The trade may not come this year, as there just isn’t one that makes a lot of sense right now, but I’m not sure Faried lasts in Denver past next season because I think the Nuggets ultimately choose the player they have already significantly backed in McGee.

So enjoy Faried for every minute he steps on the floor this season, it may just be his last in powder blue and gold.

 

  • Thomas

    It’s hard to believe that we are even discussing trading him. We would quickly find out how awful this team can be without him.

    I wish we would talk about trading Chandler or Gallo, one incredibly injury-prone and inconsistent, the other one overrated, and unable to be clutch.

    Those 2 are better trade bait, at least from our perspective.

    • Scott

      Gallo was extremely clutch last year… Won us or kept us in almost double digit games with his clutch baskets.

    • Cullen

      Yeah, I am going to disagree with you pretty strongly here. Sure, Chandler has struggled to stay healthy and maybe he is expendable, although I say we keep him and give him another season to try to stay healthy because when he is, he is a dynamite player.

      Gallo? Are you kidding me? This player is clutch and is our second best asset. I think trading either Gallo or Ty Lawson is an absolutely asinine idea. They are our core and two people we should build around. Great thing about those two? We can build around those players in the sense that they wont absolutely kill our cap and can put other players around them to build a championship team.

      Faried is a hustle player, with some raw talent. I agree with waiting, but saying Gallo is a net worse player and worth less to the franchise is ABSURD.

      • Thomas

        You must not follow closely or ignore the stats. Gallo’s shooting percentages dip considerably in the last 3 minutes of play. His playoff shooting percentage is much worse than his regular season avg.

        I think both him and Faried are valuable. This season will show that Hickson can’t replace Faried. Gallo can be replaced by Chandler and vice versa (although I prefer Gallo on durability alone).

        • Marv

          Hickson averaged a double double last year. Faried got a double double about once every 4 or 5 games.

    • Paul Griggs

      Do you ever watch the games? All 3 are good players and should only be traded if they get a return that would help the team.

  • John

    We survived the Melo trade.

    • Scott

      Won*

  • LBJ

    Trading for Arthur and signing Hickson confirmed that Joshy and Timmy had no interest in keeping Faried. I’m sure GSW or the Thunder could find a home for him.

  • Charliemyboy

    Do we get the impression that Connelly and Shaw really know what they are doing?

    • Kyle Wurtz

      let’s see: acquired a 5’9″ point guard when our starting point guard is 5’11”, traded an average starting center for a below-average, undersized backup power forward, let arguably the team’s best player leave to take less money to play for a key rival, replaced said player with a one-dimensional three point specialist (who is getting the starting job, no less), and overhauled the system that complements the players well and won the team fans for a system that clashes with the talent and will be, frankly, quite boring to watch (at least the nuggets of the prior years have been exciting even when they weren’t contending for home-court advantage in the playoffs…how many nuggets fans will stick around when the team is walking the ball up the court to run a pick and roll offense fighting for the 8 seed?).

      i’m going to go with no.

      • Charliemyboy

        Kyle, you are talking truth and feel exactly like I do. How can it be any different? Then they are trying to get rid of our Rodman for something laying around. They are turning a potential all-star point guard into a loser. Any disagreement? Are we wrong?

        • Thomas

          I really can’t believe either this campaign to get rid of Faried – it’s one of the most idiotic ideas I’ve seen in basketball in recent memory. You are both right, it would turn our team into an inefficient, boring, bottom of the pack team.

          You have to be kidding me that you would keep a “core” of Mcgee, Foye, JJ and Gallo and trade an arguably very difficult to replace piece in Faried.

          We sign Mcgee to a horrendous contract and are willing to stick to this (dumb) gamble, but we proceed to piss on Faried if he is to receive fair value for his services.

          Dumb and dumber. Let’s hope it’s just blog talk.

        • Pickles1731

          If we get a first round pick for Faried that would be great value. The talent in the top 10 of this draft is off the charts and would give us a shot at a franchise type player. Faried is a sixth man type player, not a cornerstone for your franchise.

      • Kody R

        Reading that made me actually realize how miserable this offseason was for us. The only move I agreed with was firing Karl. Other than that everything else was a head scratcher. I want to believe this team is a top 5 team in the west but I honestly don’t think we are. We need Gallo back asap and Chandler to be healthy to have any chance at survival this year.

      • Thomas

        All good points.

      • LBJ

        Hit the nail right on the head!

      • slugdugg

        The problem is that the “fun” running style will never translate to post-season success. It didn’t for the Suns and didn’t for us. Like it or not this team has been blown up, as was necessary, because all our pieces were put together to work in GKs win-in-the-regular-season-but-never-the-playoffs system.

        To our advantage we are blowing it up because we are switching systems, not because we just plain suck. That means we do have some assets. The question is whether Connoly and Kroenke can make the most of them the way Masai did when Melo forced our hand.

        I am a season ticket holder and I loved watching the team run and gun, but i’m willing to sacrifice it in order to have deep playoff runs. It won’t happen this season, but at least we are giving ourselves a shot for the future.

        • Kyle Wurtz

          the spurs were the sixth-fastest team in the league last year, averaging about one possession fewer than the nuggets per game. that’s a pretty small difference, and i think they did pretty well last year, both in the playoffs and in the postseason.

          the nuggets averaged a hair under 98 possessions per 48 minutes last year. here’s how some of the recent champions have done in the same stat:
          2013 Heat: 93
          2012 Heat: 94
          2011 Mavs: 93
          2010 Lakers: 95
          2009 Lakers: 97
          2008 Lakers: 98

          yes, the game is slowing down. yes, the game slows down in the playoffs. yes, the champions in recent years have generally been slower teams. but we’re talking like 5% here…in the end, it’s not the style that makes the team but the execution of the team’s style that’s going to dictate a team’s success.

          in other words, have players that fit your team’s style and execute (play the game that way you want it to be played, not your opponent). going from a karl system to a shaw system while simultaneously signing nate robinson, giving mozgov a massive contract, and putting a raw, freakishly athletic center at the core of your team doesn’t exactly scream coherence to me.

          it’s entirely possible that, in three years, the nuggets will have been revamped to look like the pacers and they’ll have the talent to, as you say, “have deep playoff runs.” but you’ll have to forgive me for not being optimistic that our moves thus far are moving us in that direction. instead, i see a team in the midst of an identity crisis. at best, it’ll be a painful few years that will end in us getting back to a mid 50s win season with a better chance of going deep in the playoffs. much more likely, though, is that we’ll become the milwaukee bucks…

          • slugdugg

            I’m not talking about speed of play, i’m talking about GK’s offense. I would argue that the Nuggets executed GKs offense as well as it could ever be executed last year, but the scheme itself was flawed. Not running plays, not having inbounding schemes, relying on the fast-break for points, all translates to a scheme that is “dumb” – meaning it has no facility for adjustment. The key to winning in the playoffs is, as you stated, the ability to execute, but the scheme that the team runs must also have a high facility for adjustment. Popovich is the best coach in the league at making adjustments, because he is a great coach but also because he runs a system that supports it. GK barely coached during games because there isn’t anything to adjust in his system beyond adjusting who is on the floor. That system cannot succeed in the playoffs no matter how well it is executed, because your competition will always take away your first and maybe your second preferences for what you want to run.

            Now I agree with your other points though… I dont see much inventiveness in the front office signings to give me hope that we are going to be successful at reshaping things. I ALSO agree that the inside-outside system that Shaw seems to want to run isn’t promising in terms of being the most exciting way to replace the GK system….and also is about as far from what this team is built to do currently…which will be painful to watch for a while.

            I was just saying we had to bite the bullet at some point so it might as well be now.

            • Kyle Wurtz

              gotcha. totally on board with what you’re saying now.

          • Kyle Wurtz

            also, just ran some quick numbers… here’s the fisher p-value of some key statistics for last year’s season. the smaller the p-value (which ranges from 0 to 1), the more important the statistic is for a team’s winning percentage.

            true shooting percentage: 0.001 (incredibly important)
            assists to turnovers: .100 (pretty important)
            pace: .971 (not important AT ALL)

            in other words, it didn’t matter whether you played at a break-neck pace or whether you walked everywhere. the things that mattered were elsewhere (shooting percentage, rebounding percentage, assists to turnovers, etc.).

            switching to a slow system satisfies a lot of people because it satisfies conventional wisdom. but it isn’t a cure by itself. make no mistake, the nuggets can be successful by being a slow team, but it’ll probably take them 3-7 years and a complete roster overhaul to do so. and in the end we’ll be right back where we are.

  • Len Nunes

    how about we play a quarter of the season, start to figure out where everybody fits in this magical, mythical new system Shaw is introducing to Denver THEN have this conversation.

    • Cullen

      Magical mythical new system? You do know that he has coached in the systems he is trying to implement, right?

      • Len Nunes

        yes I understand that but what I don’t understand is if the new system being brought in so clearly doesn’t fit certain players, why attempt to jam a square peg into a round circle?

        • Charliemyboy

          Agreed. Management maximizes the talent he has; management does not disconfigure a team because this is all it knows or someone else did it. Love Shaw as a person, but he’s a rookie. Sad about Ty’s all star aspirations. Gone.

      • Michael

        Shaw has never been a Head coach so it is a good question if he can turn his ideas into realities. Shaw is well respected in the league and seems like a truly high character person but I am already worried about him. The Nugs number one home advantage has always been the altitude and by slowing down the pace you are mitigating that to a minor factor. Thinking like that makes me think he has wanted to be a head coach for so long that he already had a plan and is implementing it regardless of the strengths and weaknesses of the team he took over.

        • Cullen

          My problem is that i do not think that Shaw will completely eliminate being a running team. Sure, he wants to decrease this… but I’m not sure why that is bad. Look at the playoffs, teams that run the entire team do not win championships. I think he will still put fourth a team that runs, but actually has a half court offense with some strategy. Now that sounds good…

    • Charliemyboy

      Sounds like delaying obamacare.

      • Len Nunes

        could you please translate that for the Canadian in the room LOL

  • Cullen

    Okay, I am going to go out on a limb and say Kenneth Faried is probably pretty overrated.

    I say this with two caveats:

    1.) He plays incredibly hard and plays the right way. He is all about the hustle play and is somebody that most every team in the NBA could benefit from having right now.

    2.) Looking at him for a skills output/what they will pay for him ratio, I think it will be better to trade him. If you can get some young talent that fits the system a little better and can expand the teams depth and future, why keep him? We have JJ Hickson and Darrell Arthur, both are solid players that will assuredly play well under the Shaw system. I will agree that neither of them are Kenneth Faried and may even be worse than Faried, but both fit the system better and have more potential to do what Shaw wants big men to do.

    Overall, I think we should play out the season leading up to the trade deadline, looking how he fits into the system and then make a decision. Before people absolutely jump shit, remember how the Melo trade worked out? Yeah, we won that trade and have pretty high potential to win a Faried trade as well.

    • Thomas

      Yeah, build a contender with Ty, Gallo, Hickson and Arthur…you must be joking.

      Arthur is awful. A sub at best. We will find out this year if Hickson as PF on a good team can be any different than the PF he was in Cleveland and Portland – a bad PF on 2 bad teams.

      • Cullen

        You misunderstand: moving Faried would help get pieces. Also, Hickson was a good PF on a bad team last year. And has typically been good when the pieces around him are good, aka the Nuggets.

      • RM_high

        Hickson averaged a double-double playing out of position last year.

    • LBJ

      What makes you think Joshy and Timmy will get any “young talent” for Faried? To date they have only acquired a bunch of guys that no one wanted. Ujiri “won” the Melo trade – and he works in Toronto now!

  • Michael Gross

    We are quickly going from a fun overachieving rising team coming off a special season to an injured slow underachieving boring team that looks shaky entering the season. Thanks Josh.

    • Cullen

      1.) Injuries are ironically not Josh’s fault.

      2.) It’s the preseason, so it is not like it matters all that much.

      3.) Would you rather have exciting games in which we exist int he first round EVERY YEAR or maybe slow down and win more games? If the answer is not win more games, you need to rethink how you conceptualize basketball.

      • toluene hawk

        3.) Would you rather have exciting games in which we exist int he first round EVERY YEAR

        Yes, I would. I watch basketball to be entertained. Could give two shits if they exit in the first round every year. It has no affect on my life if the local team wins the big game. I would rather watch sparks fly for 50 games per year than grind out 45 wins and grind out a playoffs run. The spurs and celtics of yesteryear are boring ass teams to watch, don’t care how ‘good’ they were.

        • Cullen

          You dont care that the Spurs won 3 championships and deep playoff runs for a decade or more? That the Celtics were in the Championship/won it two years in a row and in deep playoff runs every year? You would rather have first round exists? Puhlease, making Nuggets fans look bad, man.

          • toluene hawk

            Only thing a championship does for me is raise ticket prices. Honestly, how will your life improve if the Nuggets win it all?

            • Len Nunes

              now that’s a frickin bumper sticker!!

            • mmj5280

              If you don’t care if we win a championship…… you are not a real fan. If you want to be entertained watch Seinfeld

              • toluene hawk

                I watch Sein all the time. There is no “we” involved here. Its the Nuggets, and the consumers.

              • mmj5280

                You can be a cusumer. I don’t want to see any other team win period.

            • mmj5280

              OYou probably just like to look at a chick too. You don’t like to touch them huh?

          • Fraser Nixon

            The spurs have Tim Duncan, we are trying to run the ball through JaVale McGee… I mean at least GK played to our strengths!

            • Cullen

              Yean, Duncan is better than McGee. Sure, he wants to change the system but why is that so bad? Play to the system that will never win championships, or try to change the culture/system to be one that better fits a championship environment? Answer seems simple to me.

          • Charliemyboy

            Remember the Everly Brothers: Dream, dream, dream, dream. There is no way to win any championships here, now or for many, many years. No proof. Add Carmelo/Chauncy and you still don’t win. Come on, what is the reason Miami/SA are on top? Coaching and chemistry; knowledge of how a team works. We had a coach that was that close and might have done it. Love Shaw as a person, but he is a rookie blaming the players for a 38-14 run by Phoenix in the 4th quarter??. Where does the buck stop? I would rather win games, as we will not see a championship for many, many years. If we had kept last year’s team and coach, we could compete for a championship and win another 50-60. Now? Definitely NOT!

            • Cullen

              Lol we were NOT close with George Karl is the problem. We were out in the first round all but ONE YEAR. I dont know how many more excuses you could make for the guy. At some level, yes it was the players who were responsible, but jesus christ as many years as he was here and all the roster changes that were made, we should have seen the almost Popavich coach you are talkign about. And Shaw has been coaching preseason, we do not even have A REGULAR SEASON GAME. Jesus, imagine if you got criticized at your job for how you handled orientation. Additionally, if you watched the Suns game, they were clearly not playing with energy and tempo… certainly fixable. And even if it was coaching error, IT IS THE PRESEASON. Do you think the best coaches just tore it up from the beginning? No. I am not saying Shaw will be the best ever, but you at least have to give him a chance.
              We would never compete for a championship with last years coaching staff, we would have continued to do what we did for a decade: lose in the first round. Sometimes, you just get tired or failure.

              • Charliemyboy

                Actually you’re right. We couldn’t even get past GS w/o Faried and Gallo. And most lower seeds win championships. Those wins throughout the year were imagination. We will beat all those same top 5 teams this year, just watch! And when we’re 7th or 8th seed, we’ll clobber SA or OK to make it to the 2nd round and beyond. Coaching, chemistry and two al-stars wins; no other formula. We were almost there. Maybe we’ll get GS and pay um back! I think Shaw is good enough to last at least two years. And maybe more! 7-0 Chicago doesn’t even have a regular season game either (we beat them last year by the way). They must be experimenting also. Or maybe they have the chemistry we were building under Karl by keeping the team intact. Sell Faried! First bid gets him! My point is I would rather win games than in the playoffs, as a championship may never come. Now we may not do either significantly. Sorry, I’m a realist.

              • LBJ

                We have to actually get to the playoffs before we talk about how many series we are going to win!

              • Cullen

                Agreed, we do indeed need to make the playoffs before we can talk about winning more. But, is the same thing over and over again REALLY worth it? Sure, there were numerous injuries during the Karl era, but he had like what…. 9 years to lead this team past the first round and did so 1 time. What is the excuse for continual failure? The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results, so I contend the move made a lot of sense.
                And winning games in the playoffs makes sense and yes a championship may never come… but acknowledging defeat and accepting poor results is just unaccpetable. And last two years? That is a bold claim that you have NO evidencary basis for making. You have like 7 games of analysis to make this off of. At least my analysis of Karl has 9 years of data to back me up. Give Shaw a chance. He may very well be a complete flounder, but I’m not sure I could live with knowing we would be existing the first round no matter what happened.
                Also, our season didnt end with Gallo went out. Gallo wouldnt have changed the rebounding dynamic that we got absolutely hosed in, in the playoffs. He wouldnt change random lineups and the inability to put struggling players out of their meisurey. All of those things were coaching flaws, not lack of Gallanari problems.

              • LBJ

                Losing Gallo was what caused the “random lineups.” If you haven’t noticed he is a decent rebounder – and with KK playing poorly and Faried hurt, we got nothing from our bigs.

                Without Gallo our chances for a deep playoff run were gone.

      • LBJ

        Injuries are not Karl’s fault either. I still contend Gallo’s injury ended our season last year.

  • LegalizeDenverNuggets

    I personally feel like we should be looking to sell high on Faried. I love his game and I’d hate seeing him play elsewhere, but I think he’s a player that would entice other teams because of his marketability. Plus, I think Faried has about reached his ceiling. I’d only trade Faried if we could unload him and a couple other of our boys for a legit star who could be relocating soon because their team may opt to rebuild. I’d be looking to snag Aldridge or Horford.

    • Thomas

      This is what happens when they legalize pot…sports fan start acting like George Karl and thinking that the system will bring wins, that not having one of the best rebounders in the league is OK.

      There is a reason his PER is very high, his win share contribution is very high, his eFG is very high, his rebounding rate is off the charts. He plays 28 minutes per game, sometimes as a center (gasp GK!), and gives you a double double.

      All you need to do is play him 36+ minutes. Wherever he gets to do that, the team will be much better off.

    • mmj5280

      What about Dirk? We trade Gallo, Miller, Arthur to Dallas. Maybe farried to a 3rd team.

  • Greg Boyarko

    We have too many assets not to make some kind of trade. I’d hate to see him go, but somebody is leaving.

  • mmj5280

    George Karl got fired because of his playoff record (don’t believe the hype). I don’t care who gets traded anymore as long as it gets us a championship.

    • Charliemyboy

      Are you kidding? Under Karl we beat CHI, SA, IND, CLIP, MEM and should have beat MIA, with the 3rd best record in the league. Then, Josh went to the bathroom, dumped on us, and we won’t be this good for 5 to 10 years. Wanna bet?

      • mmj5280

        Yeah in the regular season. Who did we beat in the playoffs under Karl?? I can make you a list of all the teams we lost to. Offense wins regular season games, defense wins championships. We are going to be better! Yee of little faith. Phil Jackson said he is going to go to a couple practices already because of Shaw. We now have the greatest coach in the world watching us & giving coach input

        • Charliemyboy

          I prefer winning during the regular season as we will not win a championship in the foreseeable future. Not without at least two bonified all stars and a team playing together for several years. Period. Look at the champions. Get real. So I just like wins. Sans Jordan, Karl would have a ring when he coached Seattle. Faith is the evidence of hope. We’ll see evidence in 3 years of a rise from mediocrity instead of a contender as we would have been. Wanna’ trade Faried? The others will want out also. Do like the idea of Phil Jackson… where did you get this info?

          • LBJ

            Has Phil ever coached a team without multiple Hall of Famers? The Nuggets don’t even have an all star…

      • Cullen

        Lol regular season wins. Oh so impressive!!!! It is not like there are 84 games. And it is not like those wins REALLY matter. We beat the Hornets and the Mavericks in the playoffs. Only two wins that matter. I hate to be a dick about this stuff, but winning in the playoffs is more important. Sure, getting there is critical… but do something when you get there. Karl had 9 years of good success, but never in almost a decade really broke through.
        Plus, I bet Shaw will have us to GK level in 2 years.
        But oh yeah, WE WERE SO CLOSE TO WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH KARL. CMON HE IS SO GOOD OF A COACHHHHH.
        He is in the regular season, but 20+ years suggest we would never have gotten there.
        Maybe we do end up having tough years… but you gotta let go sometime. I think Shaw is a solid replacement with good background and experience. If you dont like the Laker model, use the Pacer model and how he changed things there.

        • Charliemyboy

          If I owned the team I would have told Karl you have one year to do better; finals in the conference. If you don’t I can’t give you three more years. If I was Karl I would have sucked it up and said ok. We would have had the chemistry and Iggy and the same team that beat everyone. If he failed; he’s out. Now we will never know, and we look to suck for some time. Slow, no points in paint, and, worst of all, no tacos. Hope I’m wrong but most prognosticators say the change was unfounded.

          • Cullen

            The problem was that Karl was being a child about it. He was refusing to talk to media at the combine, and generally was really upset with the lack of extension. An angry Karl and one who is upset with the ownership could kill team chemistry. But I agree with the trade you have offered, makes sense for both teams.

            • LBJ

              Sorry to burst your bubble, but OKC’s front office would have to be smoking crack to make that deal! Westbrook is a top 20 player and Lawson has yet to make an all star team. And what do they need with Faried? They have Ibaka who is better in all phases of the game.

          • Jake

            Iggy is garbage. He’s getting old and he can’t shot. His defense was so good in the playoffs that the entire GS Warriors team lit us up no matter who he guarded. He’s overrated.

            • Charliemyboy

              What are Iggy’s stats this year? How much money does he command? Do owners like to give their money away for no reason?

  • Aaron Durkin

    If they trade Faried then the franchise has fallen to the depths of the suns and sacraminto. what is the point of saying you are going to build from with in when you trade or let go all of your home grown players.
    The other thing that is upsetting about all the articals written about Faried is every one always talks about what he cant do but never speaks to what he can do extremly well. I remmber in the days of Nene, Martin, Harringon when no player hustled Melo would leak out on every play and never even attempt to get a reb. I love watching that guy play and his hustle is contagous. you have to have players like that on your team becouse the little I have seen of Hickson and Randolph they will not bring any of that. they might have better states at the end of the day but the Nuggs will lose by 30 each game

    • Charliemyboy

      While I agree with you, I posted on the other site about trading Ty and Faried for Westbrook. Westbrook would be 20-10-10 and the star in a much nicer city. No more sucking up to Durant. He would make McGee, Gallo, Chandler, JJ and Fours instant contenders. I’m sure he has thought about leaving. OKC can’t win the way they are. Perkins needs to leave and Faried is an upgrade to help Ibaka. Ty could still flourish and would fit well with Durant. They need post energy.

      • Cullen

        That trade makes a ton of sense to me as long as Westbrook is healthy.

        • toluene hawk

          Trading Ty and Faried, and then having Gallo and Westbrook out to start the season would be very reminiscent of the Colts having Manning sit out, and then get Andrew Luck. THe following year, the Nuggets would have a high lottery pick, Westbrook, Chandler, Gallo, Fournier, etc.

          On paper it looks legit. But it also makes OKC very, very good. And all of the low-class fans would bark about not winning in the playoffs. This is why you have a favorite basketball team, and a favorite playoff team. Nuggets are my favorite basketball team, and San Antonio is my West playoff team and Boston(Rondo) is my East playoff team.

          For the record, I would rather the Nuggets go 82-0 and lose 4 straight in the first round rather than grind out a 48-34 regular season and grind our a few playoff victories. Wins per year is what the fan should be focused on. Championships do nothing but tear teams apart and raise ticket prices.

      • Scott

        Great idea on paper, but Kenneth said he talked to Westbrook after the infamous “Blocking Rocky’s half court shots” game and he said that he HATES Denver. As in the city. Sensible trade but it wouldn’t last long as he would be the next Melo/Iggy to leave the team the second they got the chance.

  • airvaid

    lol, traded away Koufos and 1st round pick in the draft for a bag of peanuts and a banana. Now talk of trading away the most popular guy on the team. A player who plays hard all the time and is loved all over the NBA by fans.

    I mean did Kroenke and Connelly look at how they shat the bed in the offseason and said

    “nope, not bad enough. we must trade Faried to really suck, he plays hard every night, we might even win some games with him”
    “but josh the fans would kill us”
    “bro, we basically made JaVale McGee the face of the franchise this offseason and no one said shit. Some idiots actually thought it was a good idea”
    “true story”

    The tank is happening guys, and it’s genius. We built the franchise around JaVale. It’s not gonna win us a title but it will get us someone like Wiggins, Randle, Parker or comparable.

  • googergieger

    Would Boston ever trade Rondo? Cause we could have a few things they want, and he would definitely make us pretty great with the right people around him. Just need to keep either Gallo or Chandler. Would probably have to take at least one of the Humphries/Wallace contracts. In any case there really isn’t much we can get for Faried and something else right now. That would make us noticeably better right now, anyways. Guess we could get some pretty great picks for him and something else, probably.

  • Roberta Nopper

    Shut up!!! Faried “can’t”………….You don’t know Kenneth! Start watching the games. Faried CAN! It is a dumb ass coach who can’t.

  • Roberta Nopper

    I think depth is the most important reason to keep faried. we have no 18mill players, so bringing in Hickson and Aurthur is not the same as the Lakers bringing them in. Kobe gets 25 mil…..they would have to make money room…….we don’t have to.

  • alex47666

    People need to get over karl, he is gone nothing we can do about it. Jesus why people want to defend him are stupid, a monkey could of coached last year’s team and still make it to the playoffs. Shaw is the future like it or not, we are a very young team and shaw develops young talent. Faried I can see being traded, if he doenst improve this season then let him go. He is energetic hustles and get rebounds, great how about get post moves take better shots and pass better

  • alex47666

    And Hickson is better for ty and mcgee than faried he can spread the ball and is a good as a rebounder, Can actually make free throws. But defense is shit, but then again so is faried’s

  • El Toro

    This is insane. You win 57 games running and sure you don’t win in the playoffs, but as a fan I’d rather lose in the playoffs than not make them at all. This team is not going to do well this season, will do even worse if they get rid of Farried, and worst of all will be boring to watch if they don’t run. Why would you eliminate the natural advantage that the altitude gives you? I can agree that you need to have a more broad stroke approach to offense and be able to switch up the identity for the type of game you’re in, but what we are going to see is a full scale implosion. I have a feeling that Shaw will be about as successful as Sacco was with the Avs. Get ready for some dark years and a lot of wasted talent.

    • alex47666

      Well after 8 years of making the playoffs and not making it past the first round, it was time for change. Im glad he is gone he didnt coach anything, no plays freethrows and defense. A monkey could of gotten us to the playoffs with the team we had last year

      • El Toro

        I doubt they make it this year and they have plenty of talent.

  • Sharkboy242

    I think too many of you fall in love with players and don’t actually see the game for what it is. Faried is awesome sure, but losing him would not be the end of the world. You guys comment and all you talk about is how bad this would be without even acknowledging anything that was written in this article – Kenneth Faried has a lot of flaws. He may hustle and everything but he is far from polished. Its not a bad idea to sell high on him while we still can.

    • LBJ

      I’m not confident that our new front office knows how to “sell high” – but I will agree that no one on this roster should be untouchable.

    • El Toro

      I think his raw abilities are rare. There are plenty of players his size but there aren’t any his age who are as effective and physical. His upside is huge and if you are building a team around defense (which I think you should in the NBA) then he is a good foundation for the future. Everybody keeps talking about how Shaw develops talent, who better to develop than Farried?

  • Darius

    I can understand trading Faried, but only because we’re already neck deep in this mess. If we had kept Karl..which would have lead to keeping Iggy, the Nuggets in general would still be more entertaining and more successful. All these offseason moves make no sence. Our owner/GM have driven a team with the 3rd best record in the Western Confrence into the ground with these moves. I’d much rather have a team with Home-Court in the First Round and lose every year than a team fighting for its playoff lives. The past decade has been a blast as a Nuggets fan, but I don’t know how bright the future will be. ~Long Time Nuggets Fan, Darius

    • LBJ

      I totally agree.

  • Paul Griggs

    What is it with coaches that come in, look at the players and then tells them they have to play to his system rather than to their strengths. Irrationally blame HOF Coach Karl but he coached to the players strengths.

  • Pickles1731

    I think people underestimate how awesome this upcoming draft is. If we could trade Faried to a lottery team for at least a first rounder then we could snag a couple of all-star caliber players in a draft with tons of potential. I would rather have a shot at one of the Kentucky freshman than Faried, who is nothing but a great sixth man at this point.

  • Josh

    I think the Nuggets need to trade Faried if he expects a monster contract next year. The fact of the matter is the Nuggets will never win a championship if Faried is their highest paid and best player. While I love watching him and don’t know if there is another player in the league who puts as much effort in on the court, he is never going to be a top 10 (probably not even a top 20) player in the league. He is too small and too horrific at shooting. With him as our best player, the best we can hope for is to continue being a 5-8 seed that loses in the first round. I would rather see the Nuggets let him go early and tank this season. Who knows, maybe in one of the deepest drafts in recent history we could get a piece that truly makes us a championship contender.

    • airvaid

      Isn’t DumDum McGee on a 4 year 44M deal? If you are one of the most loved players in the league (seriously is there a neutral who doesn’t love Faried?), a rising star and one of the most marketable players on the roster. Don’t you expect to be paid better than a guy who’s been in the league for 5 years now, and is nothing more than a joke? McGee is the face of every NBA blooper video made in the last 5 years. And to think that Faried asking for a 4 year 50M deal (reportedly) is a ‘monster’ deal.

      That 4 year 44M for McGee looks like a Godzilla compared to what Faried is asking for.

  • disqus_mThEJaZCaB

    Faried has become the most overrated player on this team. He’s not that good.