Rapid Reaction: Denver Nuggets 118-Detroit Pistons 109

Thanks to 27 and 16 from Aaron Brooks (I know I’m confused too) the Nuggets used a second half rally following the ejection of Josh Smith to beat the Pistons 118-109. The Nuggets also got contributions from Randy Foye and Kenneth Faried on their way to the victory.

Grades are below the jump.

Detroit Pistons 109 Final

Recap | Box Score

118 Denver Nuggets
Kenneth Faried, PF 32 MIN | 4-8 FG | 7-10 FT | 8 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 15 PTS | +5

Faried played well during the Denver comeback but really struggled when Josh Smith was in the game, especially on defense. He continues to shoot well from the free throw line and the field and has to be giving Denver a lot to think about moving forward. But man the defense was bad, especially the two times Jonas Jerebko beat him backdoor for dunks.

Timofey Mozgov, C 18 MIN | 4-5 FG | 3-4 FT | 9 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 11 PTS | +3

Outside of his first layup attempt, which he didn’t even hit rim on it missed so bad, Mozgov was a force. He put Josh Smith on a poster and knocked down a mid-range jumper in the flow of the offense. The 18 minutes seems low but Denver made their run without him on the floor in the second half so I understand Shaw sticking with what worked.

Aaron Brooks, PG 47 MIN | 10-19 FG | 6-7 FT | 6 REB | 17 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 27 PTS | +12

27 and 17 in 47 minutes for a guy who has barely played all season. Brooks was terrific tonight, getting to the rim in the pick-and-roll and knocking down the mid-range jumpers. On a night with no other healthy point guard Brooks delivered what will probably be the best game he plays all season.

Randy Foye, SG 44 MIN | 8-18 FG | 1-1 FT | 5 REB | 5 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 22 PTS | +11

Without Lawson Foye had to pick up an even bigger scoring role and he did so, catching fire in the third quarter as Denver started to pull away. He has been everything Denver could have asked for and more this year, tonight was just another example.

Evan Fournier, SG 24 MIN | 5-9 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 11 PTS | -5

Fournier was the toughest grade of the night. He was able to score without knocking down the three and had a few nice moves to the rim but he also had one of the dumbest turnovers I have seen all year, leaving his feet in transition to throw a blind pass back towards the three point line for Randy Foye. Then when it was intercepted because Fournier threw the ball right to a defender he had the gall to try and blame Foye. He also got bullied by Rodney Stuckey a few times and had issues keeping Kentavious Caldwell-Pope off the offensive glass a few other times.

Darrell Arthur, PF 20 MIN | 5-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 2 BLK | 0 TO | 13 PTS | +5

Darrell Arthur threes are a thing now apparently. It is a strange but promising development with Arthur that makes his fit on next year’s team even better. If he can come off the bench and play his usual brand of good pick-and-roll defense and knock down threes to space the floor Denver has a great weapon sitting on the bench.

Jan Vesely, PF 3 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | +1

He is so bad. Poor Airwolf.

Quincy Miller, SF 7 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -7

Quincy got beat off backdoor cuts and a bit on the glass but he played hard and knocked down the three. It is really tough to grade him in just seven minutes though.

Anthony Randolph, SF 18 MIN | 1-3 FG | 1-1 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | +15

He is Anthony Randolph. He did one good thing and a bunch of bad things including bricking a jumper. But he also had one of the most Anthony Randolph moments of the season so that was fun, but more on that below.

J.J. Hickson, C 26 MIN | 5-8 FG | 1-4 FT | 11 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 11 PTS | +5

11 and 11 off the bench is nice but at one point he let someone go right by him for a wide-open layup which prompted Scott Hastings to say, “Well that is JJ.” That isn’t a good sign. At least you know what you are getting I guess.

Brian Shaw

Shaw continues to push the right buttons and ride lineups that are working to let Denver get back into games and finish them out. With the injuries the talent isn’t there to win every night but Shaw is doing a good job of coaxing out good performances from a bunch of different guys. He has his problems, like playing guys too many minutes, but there is plenty to be excited about as Shaw’s career moves on.

Two Things We Saw

  1. At one point in the fourth quarter a ball was going out-of-bounds, potentially off Denver. Instead of trying to grab the ball and get it up court as a Piston lie on the Anthony Randolph turned his back to the ball and found an official to point at the player on the ground and yell “it went off him.” Kenneth Faried saved the play and threw it towards Randolph who had no idea what was going on. Luckily someone on the Nuggets was paying attention and grabbed the ball but it was a very good example of why Anthony Randolph is who he is, which is nothing but a bad role player. But man was it funny.
  2. The Atlanta loss was tough but as a second game of a back-to-back it was expected. Outside of that Shaw has the Nuggets playing well recently which is a nice sign. It doesn’t guarantee anything for next year as many pieces are going to be added and roles changed but Shaw clearly has an idea of how to handle things and has figured out how to put a variety of different players in roles they can be successful in. Denver has a tough schedule to close the season so there are more chances to add nice wins to this run.

Next up: Friday, Mar. 21, 7:30 p.m. (MST) @ Dallas. Going to the game? Save money and get cheap Denver Nuggets tickets here.

  • heykyleinsf

    HA HA!!! 4 of the last 5 and 6 of the last 9!!!
    HA HA!!!
    And Brooks had 17 DISHES.
    Best game of his life.
    “I’m finally learning the system.”

    SUCK IT HATERS. SUCK IT GOOD.

    • Sócrates Manzoni

      Easy buddy, one win agaisnt a team in the East lottery doesnt make turn the Nuggets around

      • heykyleinsf

        without 4 starters (Gallo, Javale, Chandler and Ty) and a 6th man..
        like I said 4 out of the last 5
        If you want this team to tank.. I hope it stings.

        • Sócrates Manzoni

          Calm down. It doesn’t matter whether they tank or not. This team can’t make the playoffs and it won’t be able to tank their way to more than 3 more spots up the lottery.

          I agree with you, this was a fun win but it’s also fools gold. The Pistons are a broken team with no head or leader. Denver is still a team with huge roster flaws

          • heykyleinsf

            you mean like being without 3 of their best players all year? It’s a theory.

          • Nugman

            Plus the game really turned when Josh Smith got tossed

            • heykyleinsf

              well I’m sure glad you found a rationalization to make it still a sad day. Six wins out of the last 9. Four out of the last five. A win without our best player and starting SF.

              Keep looking on the dark side.

              • Nugman

                But why couldn’t we do this when it still mattered?

        • Sócrates Manzoni

          That being said, i also agree that it seems that the roster is starting to buy into shaw’s system and that is much more valuable than a high lottery pick in my opiniom

          • gimpcom187

            Well youd be wrong about that if the pick landed top 3. I wrote a reply about the tip 20 us players in per. All but 4 were picked top 5. Unless shaw is a top 5 coach all time he cant touch the value of a top 20 player.

            At this point it doesnt matter. Unless they lost out they arent getting a good shot at a top 5 pick.

            Nice win. Glad heiny enjoyed it and was able to act so maturely.

            • Andrew

              That’s a pretty amazing stat. 16 out of the top 20 players were drafted in the top 5. Makes complete sense, but it is still amazing. Makes me wonder if the Nuggets should just trade their #1 this year to a crappy team for either a good player or a future #1 if their pick is not in the top 10.

              • gimpcom187

                Im of the thinking they should go in the opposite direction and choose to tank for a season or so potentially trading Ty if they can get a top 10 pick. But I lived in san antonio before here and understand how much fun it is to be a fan of a team with a legit championship shot (the only Denver team I think you can say that about in the past 25+ years is the 08-10 teams). If a team is a first or 2nd round exit I can get excited if they have realistic room for growth (and a top 10 ballplayer), but otherwise Im kindof disinterested.

        • Curtis

          Oh yeah, we’re winning it all this year. Its good that we are buying in and able to do some good things, but we still aren’t that good. How many times early on did we go 8 or 9 wins then lose 10. win a couple, lose a bunch. It would be useless to tank right now since we probably wouldn’t get a lottery pick anyways. The only reason anyone wanted to tank is because the draft is awesome and we knew we weren’t making the playoffs. Glad to see Ty and the gang (and Shaw) figuring some things our for next year.

  • Nugman

    Shaw should get an A+ because he only made one substitution in the entire 4th quarter! So what if Brooks had 47 minutes and Foye 44. They can take it! How many players in the NBA play over 40 minutes? Do you think Shaw just forgets how many minutes guys have played, or is this just another sign of his genius system?

    • Sharkboy242

      Its not a rapid reaction without Nugman putting Matt and Shaw on blast.

      • Nugman

        Even Matt agrees that Shaw is playing guys too many minutes. The strange thing is that earlier in the season when it mattered he was scattering playing time around 12 guys, but now that it doesn’t matter he’s playing guys 40+ minutes. This really seems backwards. Why play guys so many minutes now?

      • Heisenberg

        His criticism, while sometimes appearing to be a bit harsh, is certainly valid.

        • Sharkboy242

          Yes.

  • Sócrates Manzoni

    One good thing about this past offseason is the moves that Denver DID NOT made, chief among them: signing Josh Smith

    • Andrew

      Yeah. Would be nice to still have AAA, though, huh?

      • Sócrates Manzoni

        Well, that’s Masai’s fault. That trade happened two offseasons ago, we can’t hold Connelly and the current staff responsible for that failed gamble, can we?

        • Andrew

          Oh, I agree. I was just thinking about how nice it would be to still have AAA and get lucky and get someone like Randle or Vonleh in the draft.

      • Sharkboy242

        Yep. One of the few reasons I don’t glorify Masai… Terrible trade in hindsight.

        • gimpcom187

          If its only in hindsight then really it wasnt terrible. It was a team 2 all stars from contention. Afflalo is slightly above average making more money than he should. Hence he hasnt even fetched orl a 1st. Iggy was a huge upgrade for them at their weakpoint defense. It was easily worth the risk. Its unfortunate he left. As did masai and karl.

          Losing the first is the real issue It would have been smart to protect it. It was unreasonable to assume both picks would be top 20 going into the season let alone 20 months ago at the time of trade. Medium mistake.

          The real mistake was getting mcgee and giving him that contract. Dude is a backup making 11 mil a year. Unacceptable.

          • Andrew

            All fair points, but when I read about cap issues, it makes me laugh. The Kroenkes are billionaires. We act like they will go to jail or something if they go over the cap (I’ve been guilty of this, too). Who gives a crud if they have to pay luxury tax? Does Josh want to win? I applaud the chance on McGee. Pony up, take some chances, and then write the enormous loss off on your tax return. Ha ha. It’s not even their money. Stan married into it, didn’t he? If I had a billion, I would pay the top 10 players to come to my team, max them all out, pay the luxury tax, and then laugh as we waltz to a 70 win season and the championship. Make the loss up on merchandise. The new team motto would be something like “Our Nuggets Roll Downhill…Eat it L.A. and Miami”. I know, I’m just being goofy, but the cap thing still makes me laugh.

          • Sharkboy242

            True. Hindsight is 20/20.

            • gimpcom187

              assuming you are taking context of the situation at the time. Often that is not the scenario.

    • LBJ

      We could have used a 6th PF on the roster!

  • Andrew

    27 and 17? I did NOT see that coming. The downside is that they and the Knicks are going to finish about 11 and 12, respectively. Chances at getting a top 3 pick are remote, so it will be somewhere between 11 and 14. Who would that get us? Anyone care to speculate?
    Also, barring the Nuggets upgrading its bigs in the off season, do we think it will be Mozzy/Manimal with Geezy/Hickson off the bench, or Geezy/Manimal with Mozzy/Hickson of the bench?

    • Russell Hamilton

      All depends on how McGee performs under Shaw. He’ll most likely get the chance to prove he should start, and may start all season regardless, but it’s up to him if he gets “starters” minutes and is in to finish games.

    • Nugman

      You still have the same problem of playing Faried, JJ or McGee together. All their games are too similar and create problems for each other. Faried and JJ have both been much better since Moz began starting because they’re not in each other’s way. DA/McGee and Moz/Faried are the good pairings so hopefully they can move JJ.

      • gimpcom187

        Agreed. Good analysis. Dump mcgee if possible too.

  • Richard Pesicka

    This team doesn’t need a draft pick. Draft picks take time to incorporate into a lineup and learn the plays. What the Nuggets need is a total healthy team. Next season if the same players get hurt again, time to dish them off to someone else. Strange game tonight. But it’s a win.

    • gimpcom187

      They need 2 huge talent upgrades assuming gallo comes back to near peak by 2016playoffs. They need draft picks if you want any shot at top 4 seed in the next 5 years

      • Andrew

        Totally agree. They need “A” players at either of the 4/5 positions and the 2, right? One of them needs to be a top 5 pick as you stated above. Lottery pick.

  • heykyleinsf

    15 games left. The Nuggets have the 12th worst record in the NBA (or the 19th best if you want to look at it like that)

    The Knicks are 4 games back of the 8th seed after winning their last 7.. but I don’t see that lasting. The Nuggets have 5 more wins than the Knicks.

    It’s your choice.. you can be positive about the good things happening lately or you can feel sorry for yourself because they aren’t guaranteeing themselves any real shot at a top 5 pick.. Up to you.

    I for one believe in this coach, this team.. and next year no matter what the draft brings.. and get over the delusion that some rookie.. no matter who it is.. is going to make that big of difference anyway. As good as Kyrie Irving is.. Cavs still losing. As good as some of the #1 overall picks have turned out.. the majority of #1 overall picks .. HAVE BEEN FLOPS. Look at this link… and maybe consider getting behind your team.. unconditionally for once.

    http://www.nba.com/history/draft/index/

    • Nugman

      I agree on the high draft pick not being the savior, but the jury is still out on Shaw for anyone who understands coaching. He just does too many strange things like playing Brooks 47 minutes and Foye 44 tonight. His late game management has also been weak which vital in the playoffs.

      • heykyleinsf

        I live in San Francisco.
        (hey kyle in SF)
        Warriors fans were just like you… to Mark Jackson in his first year.
        Same story.
        From Wiki…

        “Mark Jackson was hired as head coach of the Golden State Warriors on June 6, 2011. He was the first head coach hired by new owners Joe Lacob andPeter Guber. Jackson struggled to a 23-43 record in his first year during the lockout-shortened 2011-12 season as the team suffered several injuries to key players while adjusting to a new system.”

        I’m taking you as serious as I took them.

        • Nugman

          I hope Shaw does prove to be our savior, but so far he hasn’t shown that ability

          • heykyleinsf

            won 4 of the last 5.. 6 of the last 9.
            And through the same amount of games right now..
            His rookie record (.448) is already better than Jackson’s was. (.348)
            And GSW didn’t have nearly the amount of impact losses we had. I’m sorry but your evaluations are completely subjective. In comparison.. Shaw deserves a lot more credit than he’s getting around here.

            • Nugman

              I don’t see the hate. I just think some people are realistic about what’s going on with the Nuggets. To say it’s all going to be great next year is denying a lot of reality. We all hope that happens, but everything has to go perfect to make it reality.

              I’m also not sure what the Warriors have accomplished so far. The Nuggets won 57 games last year and I’m not sure the Warriors will do that. And only time will tell if they’re really going to be a contender in the playoffs. I have hard time seeing them beat the Spurs or OKC.

        • gimpcom187

          They tanked for a top 7 pick as it was unprotected after that. 18-22 at one point. Not to mention jackson was working in tv and was never even an assistant as opposed to shaw 6-8 years as assistant.

          If you want to compare instead of cherry pick spend some time. Look at rookie coaches over the last 5-10 years. Look out how many show significant increase in wins in 2nd year if they were under .500 in year one.

          • heykyleinsf

            OH!! so they tanked by design!!
            YEAH!!
            That’s what a rookie head coach wants to do..
            be in danger for getting fired right away!!
            DUDE CoME ON!!
            That’s so completely delusional and untrue.

            DIrect W-L records.
            Yeah. Sorry for the “cherry picking”

            • Heisenberg

              The Warriors traded Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut, and shut down both Steph Curry and David Lee, even though Lee was healthy toward the end of the season.

              They tanked.

              • gimpcom187

                How dare you bring facts into a conversation with heiny. ;-)

              • heykyleinsf

                that’s a delusion.
                It’s a fantasy.
                No team “tanks” on purpose.
                It’s like every year there’s a few Chicago Black Sox teams.
                NO.
                It’s all in your mind.

                But even if it was true. It would make me sick..
                It’s like flopping.
                If it really happens (I don’t believe it.. but if it really happens)

                Then the NBA would be a joke and anyone following it would be a loser.

              • gimpcom187

                Im not sure you understand what the word tank means The black sox didn’t tank. It was the postseason. They cheated to get money from the mob reportedly. Tanking is the process of an organization going out of their way to not put out their best team during the regular season in hopes of getting a better draft pick. GSW had a choice of top 7 pick or no pick at all. As Heisenberg detailed for you they traded a good starter for an injured player and didn’t bring back their second and third best players from injuries despite them being capable. In addition the team went from a borderline average team at midseason to worst 3 in the league. And then returned to an above average team the next season. Apparently the only way to convince you the team was tanking is what? Mark Jackson detailing their process and discussions of how to minimize their chances of winning.

                No one cares if it makes you sick or whatever. Reality is reality. It’s actually called being smart. No playoffs and no pick at all. Versus No playoffs and top 7 pick. PS you never answered my questions about the integrity of past nugget indiscretions: Faried hedging out on curry last playoffs. Reggie Evans grabbing Kaman’s junk 8 years ago. Since you are a paragon of morality did you stop rooting for those players because they blurred the lines of moral choices.

              • heykyleinsf

                losing on purpose..
                Same thing.
                post season or pre season or any time.
                Losing on purpose.

                But I find it hilarious how much effort you put in to arguing the silliest stuff. That one was classic.

              • LBJ

                See 76ers. The players are not tanking – the front office is. Trading Jrue for a guy that’s out for the season. Dumping Turner and Hawes for nothing.

            • gimpcom187

              Umm 18-22 to 23- 43 with a top 7 protected pick which they ended up as 6th or 7th worst record. Its one of the clearest tank jobs in the history of the sport.

              The previous season gsw was 10 games under .500. Denver was 32 games over .500. The warriors clearly tanked and were a young team. Nuggets are a fairly veteran team in their top 7. Jackson had zero coaching background shaw had great coaching background. Essentially the commonalities are rookie head coach played In nba and both are african american.

              Like I said. Stop being lazy and check through the history of coaches if you want to suggest shaws mediocre to poor team record is likely just growing pains and they will play great for him next season. Id like to see some analysis by you at some point. Instead of just trashing realists as haters or pessimists. Seriously. Please.

              • Sharkboy242

                Sorry but history is far from valid analysis. How other first year coaches performed under their given situations has no implications on Shaw on this Nuggets team going further. Its not surprising seeing you use that ‘data’ to fuel your argument though.

              • gimpcom187

                It would give you a correlative understanding. It would give you an approximation of how likely it is. It’s not causal but not much outside of scientific studies is causal.

                That doesn’t excuse Heiny just saying well this one guy did it with totally different circumstances so obviously there is a good chance that Shaw will too. That’s silly and lazy. Shaw and Jackson have virtually nothing in common in terms of coaching experience, roster construction, motivation of front office to tank in year one, etc. They are a HORRIBLE comparison.

                Giving one example is such a small sample even IF they were very similar it would be a silly exercise. Put some time in or just say: Hey I want him to be good so Im going to hope he is. We’ll see. Who knows.”

                At least that would be an accurate portrayal of the situation. You have zero idea that Shaw will be a good coach. None of the stats suggest he will be, so the default position should be unlikely but you can still give the guy a chance next season (Stats being decreased offensive and defensive efficiency, huge discrepancy in Wins)

    • gimpcom187

      Did you actually look at your link? 9/11 all stars since 2003. This is considered a deep draft in all star talent. Oden would have been without injuries. 16 of the top 20 us born players in PER this season were picked top 5. All others picked top 10.

      So your premise is essentially I want a 38 win team with zero shot at playoffs vs a slightly better shot at top 3 pick. The chances of top 3 pick outside bottom 9 record is so low it doesnt matter. Thats a reasonable argument.

      Even if you get the number 1 pick you only have an 80% shot at an all-star and what will likely be 40% shot at a top 10 mvp candidate ( lebron dwight rose, blake griffin and anthony davis will be within 2 years and kyrie irving and wall have legit shots as well) thats not the argument. Essentially thats saying: who wants an all star on their team.

      Stick to your false sense of superiority. Stats seem too complicated. :-)

      • heykyleinsf

        GImp..
        these were #1 overall picks.. okay?
        Yeah??
        Follow me so far?
        It was never realistic at our worst for getting that ball..
        and it’s even less so now at this point when everyone
        was all giddy thinking (for some reason.. IDK) that we
        were going to get it?
        I get the vibe you still have that pipe dream or are sad that
        it’s seems to be drifting away…
        Again.. these were all #1 overall picks..
        And the list just isn’t that exciting..
        But I’ll go with it.. easily..

        Anthony Davis was called a bust as a rookie last year.
        he’s improved.. but he’s by no means out of the woods as a possible bust.
        John Wall .. in his 4th year.. finally made the all star team.. as an alternate.
        Greg Oden has been a bust.. Can’t be any argument about that.
        Andrea Bargnani. BUST. Big time.

        Andrew Bogut.. BUST.
        Kwame Brown and Kenyon Martin. Bust and Bust.

        Again. THESE ARE #1 OVERALL PICKS!!
        I just listed 7 of them!!
        I will concede.. (maybe not so generously.. but it goes without saying).. these #1 overall picks were not busts..
        Iriving, Griffin, Rose, Howard and LBJ.

        but still .. more misses than hits. Only 5/12 were hits.. 7/12 were misses. I stand totally by what I said.
        Because I was correct.

        • Heisenberg

          Davis will be the best PF in the game within 3 years. His defense is already near the top of the league and he is showing rapid progression on offense.

          Using all star team rosters? Come on man, Kobe made the all star team as a STARTER this year and he played 6 games. 6.

          Oden and Bogut would have both been all stars if not for injuries, which isn’t a talent issue.

          This draft class is much better than pretty much all of them outside 2003 anyway.

          • heykyleinsf

            Well my point seems to be completely lost on everyone. It’s still totally valid.

            The tanking principle is completely invalid and insane.
            It’s not the way good teams are made.
            It’s crazy that so many people believe in it..
            It’s BS.

            • gimpcom187

              your definition of bust is what then? Not a top 10 player in the league. Let’s be realistic. A bust for a number 1 pick is someone who never makes an all-star or all nba team (top 25 or top 15 player approximately) We’ll go back 10+ years not counting 2013 as they are rookies and we have no idea what they will be like. Go back 16 years tim duncan to Anthony davis. 4 have never made the all-star or all nba (bargnani, olowakandi, oden, kwame brown) Oden wasn’t so much a bust as an injury issue as he was considered a top 5 center in the league in his first full season. 2 only made the all-star/all-nba once slight disappointment (martin/bogut) though bogut was another injury issue as he made the all nba the season prior to his grotesque arm injury. The rest have or are going to make multiple all-star appearances. That is 10 of 16 have or will make multiple all-star games. (8 already have) So even with a broad definition of Bust as not making multiple all-star or all-nba games more than once it is NOT a majority which is what you said. Not to mention 5 or six have spent multiple years as top 10 players in the league and Davis looks on that path as well (and Irving and Wall have shots at it)

              Your general point that getting a top 5 pick guarantees nothing is correct. It just gives you a much better shot. This team currently has zero players who have been all-stars. Lawson is the only guy with an outside shot. The team needs an infusion talent. Since Denver is not a destination city and they don’t have a current all-star to pair with it is unlikely they can convince a top 20 player to come. The draft is the path to WCF relevance. It’s not guaranteed, you are right. But what is guaranteed in the NBA? You play the percentages generally speaking.

              For instance, I said if the nugs dumped Karl they would likely lose significantly more games this season than last. I didn’t KNOW that. I just understood he was a very good coach and the chances of them getting a coach of equal ability was very low unless they signed SVG. It was not guaranteed. Just very likely. Looks like I made a good call on that one.

              • heykyleinsf

                Getting the #1 overall pick isn’t happening.
                All I’m saying is.. even if we did.. like so many teams have..
                it’s far from any guarantee of changing anything.
                Tanking is just a worthless concept is what I am saying.
                The #1 overall pick isn’t generally worth it.
                It’s led a lot of teams no further than they were.

                My point is that a team has to develop a winning culture.
                A Gestalt culture.
                We’re heading in the right direction..
                Now I’m sure we’ll get a decent pick. It will help.
                But throwing away games is no way to build a winning culture.
                I honestly disagree that tanking exists in the NBA.
                I don’t believe it.
                If I honestly thought that..
                I wouldn’t watch anymore.

              • gimpcom187

                YOU’RE the one who made the conversation about #1 overall Not me. YOU linked to the previous #1 overalls. I have repeatedly referenced having a top 5 pick gives you a better shot. They aren’t likely to get that either at this point, but if they had tanked starting 2 weeks ago and ended up at 29-31 wins and the 7th worst record there was decent a shot
                .
                Im not sure how you get not worth it when over half the guys turn into multiple time all-stars and 1/3 end up as top 10 in the league. What do you want out of a number 1 pick. Just say it.

                Worthless means has no shot or very little shot in making a difference on the team. Given the team has no all-stars and draft is the only realistic way to gain one in the next few years I would say worthless is the OPPOSITE of what a top 5 pick would be to this team and even a top 10 would be valuable as that gives you a 5-10%(approximately) chance of getting an all-star

                Winning cultures are developed by Front office/ Good to great coaches and having at least 1-2 stars on your team. Winning 40 games rather than 31 doesn’t make the team feel like “winners”

                You honestly believing tanking doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so. Bury your head in the sand I guess. Do teams cheat to lose. No. Do they create suboptimal scenarios for winning by trading good players for lesser short term assets or keep guys out. Yes they do. Especially when their pick is protected to a point they are borderline to maintain. Like I said I guess the only way to convince you is if someone said: Yep we chose to lose all those games to get the pick. It makes the most sense. No one says that because they would likely get fined by the league and potentially punished with lost draft picks.

        • LBJ

          Anthony Davis didn’t look like a bust when he kicked the hell out of our front line. He just turned 21 and is averaging 32 and 14 over his last 6 games. The nuggets could use a bust like that!

    • Heisenberg

      The Cavs front office is horrible. Never put anyone around LeBron and they still amazingly have Waiters who doesn’t get along with Kyrie.

      Bad chemistry and a poor front office. Bennett has been a horrible pick and Waiters was bad as well….

      • gimpcom187

        You are correct, but that thinking is too nuanced for Heiny. He is very black and white. You support the nuggets without any negative thoughts or critical thinking or you are a bad pessimistic fan. You are a top 10 MVP candidate or a bust as a number 1 pick. You win the Rookie of the year or you are a bust. You get in the all-star game in your first 3 years or you are a bust (4th year doesn’t count Mr. Wall)

  • Nugman

    Just think if Shaw would’ve started Moz after 10 games rather than waiting 60 and the FO would’ve traded for Brooks as soon as Nate went down. Remember all those early game double digit deficits when JJ and Faried started together for 55 games? Notice how they’ve gone away since Moz started?

    • Sharkboy242

      PREACH

      • Nugman

        That’s your job

        • Sharkboy242

          Assuming we stay healthy do you think we’ll be back in the playoffs next season?

          • Nugman

            I think there’s a real good chance. But my concern is that Shaw hasn’t shown the ability to manage games well which is very important in the playoffs. Unless he improves a lot I’m concerned we will be out in the first round again. And, of course GK was fired and Shaw hired for that reason. It was a waste of time if Shaw can’t take us further.

            • gimpcom187

              You all really think this is a 50 win team next year? Gallo isnt back til january and probably never gets back to full previous value next season. Thats the price of admission in the west unless 2 teams drop off.

              • LBJ

                Not to mention some teams will be improved after tanking for draft picks and signing free agents – Kings, Lakers, Suns, Jazz.

              • gimpcom187

                I guess that’s the difference between the realists, optimists and idealists.

                Idealists think magically Shaw will become an above average coach and the team will stay extremely healthy and Mcgee will all of a sudden become an above average player and Gallo will come back at full health. These people think they have a good shot at making the playoffs in the next two years without a significant infusion of talent.

                Optimists hope one or two of those things will happen and they will make a run at the 8th psot

                Realists say maybe the optimists are right Maybe wrong. (and the idealists are crazy). But what’s the point of pushing for the 8th seed when you don’t have young all-star types on the roster to grow beyond 6th seed beat down in the first round. Better to look at what you get at this draft and either start a semi-rebuild (Keep Ty, Gallo? Mozgov, fournier?) or complete rebuild and trade them all if you can get good compensation (like Jrue holiday).

  • Thomas

    Yay, next season we will start with Ty-Lawson-Faried-Gallo-Mcgee.

    Can’t wait to cheer another year for a team whose most optimistic upside consists of making it to the 1st round of the playoffs.

    Brilliant. Keep cheering, fans.

    I’d rather watch grass grow.

    • Thomas

      Ty-Foye-Faried-Gallo-Mcgee

      • heykyleinsf

        I would like a different SG.
        Foye might be good off the bench.
        sure would like someone more dangerous
        SG is my #1 hope for upgrade next year.

        • LBJ

          If we are drafting in the 10-12 range, I’d like to see us look at Gary Harris of Michigan State. Might be a little undersized – but he has a great all around game.

      • Nugman

        Have to upgrade SG. Foye should be the backup at best

    • COfoEVA

      Go away then, no one wants your stupid remarks.

      • gimpcom187

        or maybe you should have higher expectations. It’s OK to prefer rooting for a mediocre team. Just not OK to expect everyone else to follow your lowered standards.

        • COfoEVA

          “I’d rather watch grass grow”. The go watch grass go dumba**

      • Thomas

        Little turd is upset…oooh
        Now go put your foye jersey and grab your pompons, pathetic one

  • Ckwizard

    Game after Game you all post the same crap… It is an injustice that the Top two point guards got hurt for extended games this season because damn this team probably would have made the playoffs in the west and most certainly would have made the playoffs in the east, heck we are still better then most of the teams in the east…. Next years team is going to have 2 different starters and an upgraded bench and the ability to match up with any team and not be at a major disadvantage at any position. UNLESS we have some crazy stupid injuries again… Next years team has only one real locker room issue TOO MANY CLOWNS. But hey guess what the nuggets have a bunch of TEAM players who get “Teamness” and if you have been watching the Nuggets in the half court the Bigs are actually moving the ball and playing pretty well on offense in both the post and pick and roll. That is growth and a testament to Shaw. It is kind of refreshing to see the Nuggets playing good “team” basketball in the half court and still being in outraged to “Run”. For all the crap about “Shaw” handling things poorly (Andre Miller) at least he DID SOMETHING about the disruptive behavior which is a hell a lot more than can be said of his predecessor. It must be rough to not understand why GK was let go because it is going to be even rougher for you next year when the. Nuggets are clicking and everyone is singing Shaw’s praise. But for now keep talking crap because you can! Peace

    • gimpcom187

      gonna file this one away CK. All you said was anecdotal or just random thoughts.

      The following are all full year stats. Feel free to scrummage around for some stats that indicate the nugs are more efficient on offense or defense in any way. Remember on defense More usually means worse (so they give up a higher percetage to opponents this season than last at 45.3% this 44.7% last)

      http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-floor-percentage

      If you are getting tired of people saying the team is worse and has less than 50 game win potential for next year then bring some stats that suggest otherwise. It’s not called talking crap. It’s called being realistic and accurate.

      • Ckwizard

        Mostly random thoughts and no structure as to your first statement.
        Are you saying you want to have an actual conversation about the state of Nuggets basketball? Because most of the peeps posting on this board are having the same argument using the same words over and over. The Discussions on this board are becoming rinse and repeat from game to game.

        My random thoughts hopefully bear fruit in future conversations!

        As to your statement about stats answer me this… Where you participating in discussions on this site last year, and all year?

        • gimpcom187

          yes I was participating on this site ALL YEAR before it switched to the sign in system.

          I was the one saying the team was not a championship contender and MAXED out as a second round six game series prior to gallo injury when numerous people were saying they had a legit shot of making the finals because they had no top 15 or even 25 ballplayer (and I only moved them up to that status after the OKC win when Ty played injured, it was an impressive win).

          I was the one saying people who wanted Karl gone after the playoff series weren’t being realistic with their expectations (and understanding of GSW) and that if they didn’t get SVG the team was in for a significant drop in wins (I was thinking 8-10 instead of 18-20)

          Go ahead and stick with me CK.

          • Ckwizard

            KK I asked because you know then that I am up for a good discussion and you will also remember what this board was like when the Nuggets were barely a .500 team with Igoudala. I held my opinion that the Nuggets were better than the collective was arguing and held to my guns that the Nuggs would be a three or Four seed… I wasn’t surprised by how good the team finished… This year, yeah the pessimist win, the results are saying that the front office and this roster took a step backwards…. You can blame Shaw, You can blame the Owners, you can blame the front office, or all, any, and others, but the future results are deducted from the observations we have not the current statistics. I watch every game and I observe what I do and frankly I am encouraged by the growth I am seeing… You may not see it and I may be delusional, this season proves me wrong but hey I love that I got next season and I will be right… Ok I jest you may be right the nuggets and Shaw may be a bust. How disappointing to think that…

            • gimpcom187

              I have a problem with xalling it pessimist vs optimist. Last year the stats in december suggested the team had done well considering the ridiculous schedule they played through then. 35-3 at home is crazy but it was realistic to expect them to win 50 + games in january 2013. This season the stats dont suggest they are doijg ok in any way.

              The problem with this growth is that its similar to the 7 game win streak earlier in the season or 6/7 a few weeks after. Its coming off 11 losses in 12. Teams that arent tanking or bottom 5 in league cycle up and down.this is an up cycle.

              We’ll see over the next 11 games as the schedule gets brutal. Im guessing 4-7 or worse.

              • Ckwizard

                Have to agree I will be surprised if the Nuggets are better than 4-7 over the next 11 games….

                This season however is a vastly different roster and system. The stats agree with you the nuggets are not good but can also be explained by the inconsistencies in the lineups brought on because of injuries. Stats are going to be skewed bad when your starting and backup point guards are hurt, not to mention Loosing Igoudala and Gallo and wait for it KK was a disaster for the defensive integrity of the team. As this season progresses the defense is improving and it is because the players are collectively trying to become better defenders… This I have observed regardless of what the stats say

      • COfoEVA

        I think your the only one who cares about cumilative year stats at this point. Ya we had some really bad stretches and it took a while for Shaw to figure out his new team. Were looking at the here and now. Those stats are meaningless at this point in the season.

        • gimpcom187

          Nobody cares about ANY stats is the point. They just say some random crap about how they think the team is doing better. Blah blah blah. Yeah Shaw is going to be way better next season because one coach he has nothing in common with did so. Blah blah blah. It’s like people gossiping at the nail salon.

          At the beginning of the season I hoped they would show improvement over the seasonbut I don’t see anything concrete to suggest they will be. So since Im a rationalist I say: It’s either a semi rebuild or full rebuild.

          So the here and now stats are what? 6 of 9 won. OR is it theyve lost 14 of their last 21. If you can get some stats that suggest they have done well for prolonged stretches 20-25 games I could see making a contention. 9 games with 3 losses against sub .500 teams 3 wins against very good teams and 3 wins against horrible tanking teams.

    • Nugman

      I sure don’t see the improvement in the half court that you do. Maybe we’re watching different teams? I also haven’t seen all the positives you lay on Shaw. He’s had some decent moments, but any objective observer would give him no better than a C for this season and would be very concerned about next year based on his performance this year.

      • Ckwizard

        objective observer well lets see starting with last years regular seasons results and team if you knew that….

        1) GK was going to be replaced by Shaw one would predict less wins…

        2) Igoudala was going to leave the team… Even less wins

        3) KK would be replaced by McGee… Even Less wins

        4) McGee would be replaced by Hickson.. Even Less Wins now probably 7th or 8th seed in Playoofs

        5) Gallo wouldn’t return from injury…. Even less wins

        6) The Back up point Guards would be Hurt Even less wins

        7) Lawson would miss extended time with injury…. Definetly no playoffs

        With the loss of GK, Igoudala, and KK any objective person is going to say this team will be worse than last year

        With the loss of Gallo (or non return) and Both the Backup point guard and Ty Lawson being hurt at the same time in conjunction with previous statement any objective person would expect the Nuggets would miss the playoffs.

        The Idea that any Good coach could get this group of players to perform significantly better given the changes to the makeup of the team and the injuries to Ty Lawson , Nate Robinson, Wilson Chandler, and the Absence of Gallo and McGee is simply poor logic and based on little understanding of basketball in general not to mention team chemistry when factoring in the additions of Hickson, Arthur, and Foye.

        Evaluating Shaw requires a little acceptance that the Nuggets would be almost exactly where they are regardless of who the coach is. Hell it is actually a credit to Shaw that this team is STILL COMPETING AND PLAYING HARD given their current situation.

        For all the Faults you have placed on Shaw, the players obviously don’t agree with you and their effort shows that they believe he is bringing something positive to the team… For me it is easier to see that then anything you are stating “objectively”

        • Nugman

          What does any of that have to with half court offense??? Or Shaws performance???

          • Ckwizard

            Your two questions are exactly why your criticism isn’t recieved well by people like me, what I wrote assumes that people that read this board have some knowledge about “basketball” and an in depth knowledge of the Nuggets and their season… It seems like you don’t understand basketball or in regard to Shaw that teams like the Heat and Thunder are better than the Nuggets because of their “Coaches”

            To answer your questions Half Court offense is effected by team chemistry and familiarity with the other players… Ty Lawson has had to learn a new system and get familiar with new players not to mention all the players have had to deal with wacky line ups not because of Shaw but because of injuries. This is me yelling YOUR HALF COURT OFFENSE IS GOING TO SUCK WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE A TRUE POINT GUARD!!!! So I understand that you see a product that is “poor” and you attribute that to Shaw’s “Performance”. I however see a growth and change in the way the offense is operated and the plays being run and I see it getting more fluid and better so given my expectations matching the reality of the nuggets situation am I able to conclude that Shaw is doing a good job.

            If however I use the favorite reasoning of most of the negative peeps on this board… This years record is worse than last year… This years stats are worse than last year… It is the Job of the Coach to get whatever group of scrubs to perform at a “Winning” output regardless of their ability or the ability of the team opposite them no matter their health or experience… Then yeah Shaw is a worse coach then Karl and his performance sucks… but hey that is just plain lazy, acceptable for a fan but sure as hell unacceptable for an employer or front office in the NBA, good thing the owners get that.

  • Furious_Stylez

    Regardless of the what the Shaw haters say, Injuries do matter when they occur to starters. Gallinari and McGee average 25 ppg combined. Take a look at all the losses this season. Most are 10 points or below. If Gallo and McGee even put up half their combined average, 12-14 losses become W’s and the Nuggets are the 6th seed in the playoffs right now.

    This team is not far away from being back in the postseason. Vesely and Brooks are expiring contracts and will not be resigned. Randolph will probably be bought out. That opens up 3 bench spots. Since the draft is deep, they have a shot at a decent player in the 12-15 range. Probably not a franchise altering Superstar, but a quality, productive player. Add a attack-the-basket SG in free agency (or a trade) and the 2014-2015 Nuggets (barring any major injuries) should be a playoff caliber team again.

    • LBJ

      Apparently, the guys replacing McGee and Gallo are contributing nothing. What kind of “analysis” is this?

      I would be interested to know which teams are we going to pass to make the playoffs next year?

      A pick in the 12-15 range may take awhile to develop. What free agents are we going to sign with the expiring contracts of Vesely and Brooks? Likely no one worth a crap. We can use our MLE – which brought us that superstar JJ last year.

      • Furious_Stylez

        Swaggy P (Nick Young) has a player option for 2014 and is rumored to be opting out. He would fit perfectly with this team. He makes $1.1m this season, so the Nuggets wouldn’t need the full MLE if they signed him to a 2 or 3 year deal at around $3m per season. Other options include Thabo Sefolosha, Vinsanity, Jodie Meeks, Ben Gordon, Alan Anderson and DWade (lol). All but the last one cost under $5m.

        • LBJ

          Vince Carter? Ben Gordon? Seriously? What happened to developing our young talent?

          Nick Young sucks (as evidenced by his puny salary at age 28). If we need someone to jack up a lot of shots, we may as well keep Foye.

          Jodie Meeks is the only guy on your list that I think we would consider.

    • heykyleinsf

      I’m with you 100% Furious.
      But you know what?
      We’ll remember the doubters and the haters.
      We’ll remind them what they said.
      Just more to sweeten what’s to come.