Rumor: Chandler and McGee may be on the block

Rumors surfaced in mid-June that the Nuggets might be in the hunt for Kevin Love. Several names were floated as possible inclusions in a trade proposal, including Kenneth Faried, Wilson Chandler, and (even though he was still with the Magic) Aaron Afflalo.

Although not in the context of a Love trade, Chandler’s name has now been dropped once again as a player the Nuggets may be attempting to deal, and this time rather than the Manimal or AAA, he’s joined on the hypothetical trade block by JaVale McGee. As tweeted by Alex Kennedy of

The Denver Nuggets have considered trading JaVale McGee and/or Wilson Chandler, according to league sources.

This shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise, especially on the heels of the Afflalo trade. The Nuggets are getting close to flirting with the luxury tax, so shedding at least one contract to offset the addition of Afflalo’s salary and allow themselves a little more flexibility makes sense financially.

Of course, everything depends on the players and salary the Nuggets would be receiving in return, and who they acquire in free agency. To trade Chandler without bringing in another small forward to back up Danilo Gallinari would be to place a great deal of trust (and possibly a prematurely heavy burden) on Quincy Miller.

With J.J. HIckson being able (in a manner of speaking) to slide over to the center position, there is less pressure in this regard on recent first round draft pick Jusuf Nurkic should McGee be traded without the Nuggets getting a viable center back in return. Even so, Hickson at the five is not Denver’s most desirable scenario.

At any rate, it certainly appears that Tim Connelly’s “aggressive” offseason approach includes an open-mindedness to making significant trades, and if that proves to be the case, then Nuggets fans should be in for a very interesting offseason.

As always, keep it dialed in right here at Roundball Mining Company for all the latest news, rumors and analysis.

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Joel is a long time Denver Nuggets (and Broncos) fan from Colorado who's been living in Japan since the mid-90s, and blogging about the Nuggets since 2008. You can contact and follow him on Twitter: @denbutsu.
  • Sean

    I’m all for the Nuggets shedding salary and moving on from McGee if at all possible. But what team in their right mind would take him now?? To say that he’s been underwhelming, even when he hasn’t be injured, would be putting it as mildly as possible considering his salary number.

    That said, I think keeping Chandler should be a priority if this team has playoff aspirations for this season. The only way I would feel comfortable letting Chandler go would be if it was a necessary component of trading McGee.

    Considering the above comments about McGee, I think the far more likely scenario is that he doesn’t get traded until this season’s trade deadline once the Nuggets and the rest of the league have had the chance to reassess his value post-injury. I think it’s reasonable to believe that a healthy JaVale will only increase his value above where it is now (which is very low).

    • Native Nugget

      I like your points. It’ll be hard to move McGee and the only reason to move Chandler is if it’s a necessary part of a McGee trade. I agree with Nugman’s comment below – wait to trade Chandler until Gallo’s clearly recovered. Unless we find another favorable trade like the one for AAA, it seems prudent to wait, give Gallo time to work his way back in, give Shaw time to develop McGee (and McGee time to heal) and then have more leverage for making trades. In the off chance McGee’s been seeing a really good therapist and his head clears enough for him to tap even 10% more of his potential – he could become either a great bargaining chip or an actual starting quality center for us.

    • MacKenzie Pantoja

      I would agree, I don’t see McGee getting traded until everyone can properly assess his post injury value. I think in the ideal situation, the most likely situation, we would make a trade that would give us deja vu of a trade early last year between the Grizzlies and the Cavs, in which we would take the role of the Memphis Grizzlies. The trade:
      Cavs receive: Marreese Speights, Wayne Ellington, Josh Selby, future first round pick.
      Grizzlies receive: Jon Leuer.
      In essence: Grizzlies give up a first round pick for 6 million in cap space.
      I’d rather not give up a first round pick. But a trade along the lines of this strikes me as a plausible salary dump:
      Denver receives: A protected 2015 second round pick from some team with cap space.
      Some team with cap space receives: J.J. Hickson, 2015 second round pick from Denver, the rights to Joffrey Lauvergne.
      If you don’t know who Joffrey Lauvergne is, he was the second round pick we received from Memphis in the Koufos deal. And he’s an asset. He led the Euroleague in rebounding this season, was one of Europe’s best players last season. We get rid of 5 million dollars.

      • Sean

        From what I’ve read about Lauvergne, this would be a mistake to let him go just to erase Hickson from our roster. I don’t think you should fix one mistake by making another one. We’re not in major salary trouble right now, so I’d actually be content to just wait it out and keep our young assets in-house. Hickson is an expiring mid-level contract after this season, so I’m honestly not terribly concerned about him.

        The bottom line is that after 2015-2016, we have one player currently under contract (Lawson), with Faried, Nurkic, and Harris soon to join him. Add to that a young PF like Lauvergne and whatever Jokic portends to be (maybe something, maybe nothing), and at least you have some interesting young players to work with on the roster. Quincy Miller is another interesting young asset and I really hope he steps his game up this year. Either way, I don’t think there’s any reason to panic right now.

        • MacKenzie Pantoja

          All fair points.

  • Alex

    My only concern is that if they have found a taker for McGee and his contract, who would the Nuggets be taking back? I wonder if Phil Jackson thinks he can help McGee develop. I could see them doing a swap of McGee and Chandler for Stoudemire’s Expiring Contract.

  • Nugman

    It’s very risky to trade Chandler until you know the true status of Gallo. If Gallo struggles with his return the Nuggets will need Will big time. I would also rather see Hickson go than McGee

    • Kane

      What about playing AAA at the 3, like he often does, using Harris and Foye at the 2?

      Wilson Chandler has been completely underwhelming.

      • Sean

        While I think you can get away with AAA at SF in limited situations, that would be a woefully undersized backcourt/wing situation with 5’11 Lawson, 6’4 Foye/Harris, and 6’5 AAA. I have a tough time envisioning that as a lineup that can matchup defensively against many teams for any serious minutes (certainly not in key 4th Q minutes). In fact, that kind of lineup was my George Karl 4th quarter nightmare, and I hope that Shaw has as little a stomach for that as I do.

        I personally think that Chandler is primed for a good year. His health was a factor last year, and I think that playing on a clearly bad team probably didn’t inspire him to push hard down the stretch. But I think he was more than solid Jan-Apr last year, and if he can put up similar minutes this season, he’ll be a crucial player for us coming off the bench.

        • Cullen

          Yeah, if Chandler can get back to being more aggressive with the ball he can be a valuable player. Plus, having Chandler and Gallo healthy has been rare, but fun to watch whenever it has happened. Having both healthy allows Chandler to be what he is, more of a bench player who can really drive the ball and can stroke a little when not taking a poor shot selection.

        • Kane

          Chandler has been “primed for a good year” for way too long now. Been threatening to be a great player for years.

    • Sean

      The unfortunate reality (for the Nuggets) is that I think McGee is actually more tradable than Hickson. At least with McGee you could theoretically get 18-25 minutes of shot blocking/rim protecting. While McGee’s defensive awareness is underwhelming, I think Hickson’s might actually be worse. For me, the Hickson deal remains the only serious head-scratcher from the Connelly era.

      As for your points about Chandler, I agree. In fact, I think that even if Gallo is healthy, Chandler is an important piece to have. You just don’t find too many players that are capable of logging meaningful minutes across multiple positions like Wilson can. As I said before, if the Nuggets are serious about making a run at the playoffs this year, I don’t think you can move Chandler unless you’re seriously improving the team through a trade or shedding bloated salaries in the process.

    • Furious_Stylez

      I agree. The wing position would become very thin if Chandler was traded for anything other than a SF.

      That’s why I would’ve drafted Harris at 16 and Rodney Hood at 19. Gallo said a month ago that he wasn’t sure he’d be ready for camp. Hood would provide some insurance as a backup if Gallo isn’t ready to go.

      I hear that Nurkic is good, but his position was not one of desperate need with Faried (who plays 30mpg), Arthur, and Hickson. Now reports from ESPN are Nurkic might not come over for 2 years, which as of now makes a it a shady pick because there were decent players on the board at 16 that could’ve helped sooner than later. .

      • Bryan

        You can’t expect a rookie to be an insurance policy, especially a middle of the first round guy. If they think they need insurance for a position they’re better of going with a veteran.

        Also, the Nuggets only have one healthy guy at the 5, McGee wasn’t even doing basketball drills a month ago (I’m not sure if he has started doing that or not) and a Hickson a PF they can sometimes play at center is coming off an ACL and won’t be ready for the start of the season.

        I’d wait and see on the Nurkic rumors.

  • David Tesler

    Here’s my thinking. If they want to do a salary dump on us, fine, let them, but they must take Hickson’s contract along with Wilson, and a second round in 2015?

  • Darian Williams

    As much as id love to get rid of McGee and Chandler for another SF, i don’t think think Chandler has enough value to make taking on McGee’s contract worth it. Chandler would only be taken by a playoff team that needs him to come off the bench. A salary dump isn’t worth it, we need someone behind Gallo. My dream is Trevor Ariza but we don’t have the salary cap space for that.

  • Cullen

    I think dealing McGee makes a lot of sense, obviously. He has a bloated contract and has been unable to contribute in any significant or consistent manner since he came to the Nuggets. I definitely used to want him to play more, but I’m not sure if really ever will. He cannot stay out of foul trouble, he plays bone headed basketball and with the birth of the MosGod I don’t think you can start him or play him significant minutes.

    I also think, like most people here, that trading Chandler wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, but only if we know the health of Gallo and are confident he can return to something close to what he was pre-injury.

    It definitely makes the most sense to make this trade during the season, so McGee’s value can raise a little and we can be more sure about Chandler. Additionally, making a move now doesn’t make a ton of sense considering the fact they wouldn’t be able to make a big push at any FA this year. Dump them during the year and free up some cap and move forward and make better cap decisions.

  • theweatherman53

    I say we trade McGee, Chandler, and Hickson to New York for Amare’s expiring contract. I know its giving up a lot for not much, but we clear tons of salary off the books which makes resigning Faried much easier. While we’d be thin at Center, I think we could pick up a solid contributor in Free Agency for cheap. I bet we could get Okafor for the Veteran Minimum.

    It might be hard to convince New York to lose their flexibility next year, I bet we can throw something else in to make it worthwhile. Maybe forfeit the right to trade pics with them in whatever year that is. Regardless it drastically improves the Knicks this season and makes them more attractive to Melo, while at the same time doing exactly what it needs to for the Nuggets: clear salary and roster spots for some young guys.

    • Bryan

      Getting rid of assets just to free up cap space when you’re a mid-market team that no superstars want to come to would not be wise. Also, I don’t think there are any huge free agent openings until KD becomes one in 2016. And he’s not leaving OKC to come to Denver.

      The Nuggets need to use those assets to turn into a superstar or to acquire a better asset that can be turned into a superstar down the road. A trade or the draft are the only way for the Nuggets to do that. Otherwise you’ll be effectively dramatically overpaying for a Kenyon Martin type player again.

      • theweatherman53

        My thinking now is they’ve already gotten that superstar with the draft in Faried. At this point they need to shed salary just so they can give him the extension he has earned. We still have quite a few assets and after this one year with Amare, we’ll have some room for some more free agents.

        • Bryan

          I don’t agree with your assessment of Faried as a superstar at all. He’s not the best player on his team as evidenced by it falling apart when Lawson was out.

          If the Wolves went insane and offered a straight up trade of Faried for Love, no one with Nuggets would even blink before accepting that deal. Faried’s not on that level. He’s a freak athlete but undersized for his position and has a lot of glaring holes in his game.

          If they pay Faried like a superstar his contract will be an anchor around the Nuggets proverbial necks in a couple of years.

      • Cullen

        That is the smartest argument I’ve heard against the trade. I want to dump his deal, but it’s not like we are dumping his money so we can sign a top tier free agent. We need to make a blockbuster trade (two of these players could potentially be apart of that, but not all of it) or get a high draft pick and build.

  • Nugman

    Hopefully Shaw’s on the block too. I’d feel a lo more optimistic about next season if we had a different HC. Maybe we trade him for a backup PG

    • CD Pascual

      Not gonna happen. You can’t trade a coach who had a respectable performance last season considering the glut of injuries the roster had.

      • Nugman

        I have to disagree with the term “respectable”. Shaws performance was below average even for a rookie coach. So based off your theory Doc Rivers did not have a respectable season before he was traded to the Clips. I think not.

        Kalen, why won’t one of the writers put together an honest critique of Shaws first season. Is it a forbidden subject, or does he just get a free pass because he’s HC?

        • CD Pascual

          I don’t see what’s your point. Why do you want Shaw out? Just because he failed to reach the playoffs after being dealt a dark hand last season… in just his ROOKIE coaching year?

          Rivers had no Bradley and Rondo that season, but still has some players who made good impacts. Shaw’s roster had MORE players banged up.

          • Nugman

            I just asked for an honest critique of Shaws season

        • Dubs

          For one, I don’t think the Nuggets can ever fire a head coach after his first year unless he pulls some Jason Kidd-like power move. It shows impatience by the organization, lack of trust within their infrastructure, and makes them look like the Cleveland Browns of the NBA. Think it was hard to get Brian Shaw? It will be just as hard will it be to get a good head coaching prospect after they fire him after one year.

          Two, he was dealing with major injuries the entire season. The Nuggets were 2nd in total games missed by players last season only behind the Lakers. Even Maya Starks commented during an interview with Brian Shaw that the injury report looked like the starting lineup for some part of the season. Lets look at some of the major injuries he dealt with:

          Gallo, the best overall defender/isolation player/spot-up shooter was gone for the entire season.

          Nate Robinson, the guy who was supposed to be the sixth man coming off the bench, tore his ACL.

          Ty Lawson, the best overall player and most talented offensive pick n roll operator/slasher, got injured for a large part of the season. In addition, he’s the guy who is supposed to handle the ball and operate the offense which is like losing your QB. Very hard to recover from. Especially since they were playing without a point guard for the majority of the season.

          And then, to top it all off, lost Javale, even though he wasn’t doing well in the first part of the season, is still the Nuggets high paid center getting paid tens of millions of dollars. As the great Scott Hastings has said, “He’s the most athletic 7 footer I have ever seen play the game.”

          That’s 4 key injuries on a 14 man roster, with three of those being starters. Unless they are like the Denver Broncos, a team that lost 5 of it’s key starters on defense and still managed to make the Superbowl, no one can’t expect to lose 3/5 of their starting lineup and still expect to be competitive in the regular season. To do so would be miraculous in every sense of the word.

          And yes, Mozgov did a great job in relief of Javale. That was probably his best year by far and I would be very happy if he was starting next season as well. But unless they have a Mozgov for every injured player, the Nuggets won’t have much success.

          And considering all of the injuries that Brian Shaw experienced, to keep his team out of the basement was pretty remarkable. Teams that usually suffer those types of injuries are picking in the top 5 of the draft the next year. Only the Los Angeles Lakers were more injured than the Nuggets last season and they selected Julius Randle from the 7th pick. That’s the first time they selected that low since James Worthy in 1982.

          Injuries suck. And it wouldn’t matter if Phil Jackson, Stan Van Gundy, or Pat Riley was coaching the Nuggets. They were going to have a losing record regardless.

          • Nugman

            Coaches are fired after the first season or even during the season all the time

            • Dubs

              Mike Brown is the only example of a head coach in the NBA being fired in his first season. The only reason why they were able to do that was because Mike D’Antoni was a better fit.

              If you were to fire Brian Shaw right now, who would you pick up? Because if you don’t have a plan in place, the consequences (desirability, instability, and performance) will be hard to overcome.

        • JoelRMC

          The writers at RMC have no rules or guidelines preventing us from writing about any topic, or taking any particular viewpoint. In fact, Kalen has made an effort to bring on a diverse crew of writers with various perspectives, notably Matt, whose “Staking a Claim” column was specifically conceived as a non-Nuggets fan, outsider take (or in other words, one which might present opinions that are not very popular amongst a majority of Nuggets fans).

          The truth is, nugman, at least inasmuch as I can gather from what I have seen your comments, have have seen from the other writers in their posts and our interactions, and what I know of my own opinions, is that you have what I can only describe as an almost dogmatic opposition to Shaw which you generally frame in very black-and-white terms. And this is in fairly strong contrast to what most (if not all) of us writers see as a situation in which a meaningful, decisive evaluation of how good of a coach (or not) Shaw is has not yet been possible given all the injury madness, the highly transitional nature of last season, and the less-than-ideal roster he had to work with.

          I can say with confidence that if you ask any of us RMC writers what some things Shaw did well and some things he did poorly were last season, all of us would have multiple points to make in both columns. And if you go back through the Rapid Reaction posts, for example, you’ll find plenty of criticism and bad grades there mixed in with the positive.

          So, simply put, it seems to me that what you’re asking is for us to agree with you that Shaw has been all (or at least mostly) bad, is a terrible coach based on his performance in a single chaotic first season, and should therefore immediately be fired and replaced. And I’ll onlly speak for myself, but I think most (if not all) of the other writers would concur: Not only do I disagree with your take, I think it’s completely unreasonable, ignores the extenuating circumstances the team dealt with last season, and baselessly writes off the very real possibility that Shaw has not yet really been given a fair shot at showing what he’s capable of. None of which is to say that he’s been perfect (he hasn’t), or is a sacred cow who’s beyond criticism (he’s not). But your take is pretty extreme, in my view, and I’m not there with you. I don’t think the other writers are, either.

          But rest assured, if Shaw has a full, healthy roster of players next season, most of whom have had over a year to adjust to his coaching style and system, and he’s doing a crappy job of coaching, nobody here will pull any punches. I just think your judgment is premature.

          • Cullen

            Excellent post. Always so well composed, Kalen. The RMC staff does a great job!

          • Nugman

            Today we got a full critique of how Mike Miller would impact the Nuggets and he’s not even on the team! We also saw something similar with just about every player on the team during the season, but never one on Shaw. I simply ask why that is. The HC needs to be evaluated just like prospective FAs.

            During the season I did see the comments and negative grades on some of Shaws antics. And yes, antics is the proper word. Drawing up a last second 3 for Moz was an antic and doing it a 2nd time was a slap in the face for every Nuggets fan. The guy needs to be called on this stupid stuff. Do you think Pop would do that? Or Phil, or Doc? Of course not.

            I understand it was a tough season and the injuries hurt the team. But I am not talking about win/loss record. I’m talking about his decisions and game management. The Moz thing was ridiculous as were the first few games when he walked the ball up the court and tried to feed the posts who couldn’t post. Then of course he called the players little kids and blamed them for not playing hard, but at the same time claims he “can coach anyone.” He makes few situational substitutions at end of games and several times made only one or two subs in the entire 4th qrt. That has to be an NBA record! He left JJ and Faried and Moz on the court when we needed a last second 3 and JJ even shot one. He would leave Nate and Ty on the court when we had to defend a last shot 3 and kept trying to trap the high screen even though it cost us a layup 70% of the time. He continued to start Faried and JJ together for 40 games when it was clear to everyone on the planet that it wasn’t working. I could go on and on, but don’t have the time. Shaw simply did a bad job coaching.

            I also believe the responses I got to my simple comment completely validated my comment. How dare I criticize Shaw. Everyone who responded attacked me rather than address the issue, why is there no critique of Shaw?

            • Dubs

              “Then of course he called the players little kids and blamed them for not playing hard, but at the same time claims he ‘can coach anyone.’ ”

              Name one instance of that happening. I can’t find any audio or news report that suggests Brian Shaw did that.

              “He makes few situational substitutions at end of games and several times made only one or two subs in the entire 4th qrt. That has to be an NBA record! He left JJ and Faried and Moz on the court when we needed a last second 3 and JJ even shot one. He would leave Nate and Ty on the court when we had to defend a last shot 3 and kept trying to trap the high screen even though it cost us a layup 70% of the time. He continued to start Faried and JJ together for 40 games when it was clear to everyone on the planet that it wasn’t working. I could go on and on, but don’t have the time. Shaw simply did a bad job coaching.”

              So, your criticisms effectively only cover the end of the game or perimeter defense as a whole. I don’t necessarily buy the layup argument because that stat seems plucked out of the air.

              So maybe your criticisms are valid. But, you have to provide a solution too. What offense would you run? Would you stay with a transition game with some half court triangle concepts mixed in like Shaw does? Or do you want us to go back to the George Karl pure dribble drive transition game?

              Because if I remember correctly, the transition game doesn’t work very well in the playoffs when teams can adjust to it.

              What defense would you implement? Would you stay with the man defense Shaw has implemented or change it into a Dallas Maverick 2-3, 3-2 look?

              In Shaw’s defense, he runs purely man-to-man concepts because we have much more athletic talent than other teams and we like to keep perimeter defenders marked on their assignment. It’s hard to do that when you run a zone defense. Not saying that that D doesn’t have it’s successes too, but even Mark Cuban admitted that running the zone was implemented due to their less athletically talented players.

              How would you change sub packages? How would you manage the game better?

              Maybe you have a point here. But because you don’t have a solution, I can’t decide if your way is really better.

              I think you watched all of these games through a tunnel lens. Like Joel said, maybe the problem here is not that everyone is not criticizing Shaw. Maybe the problem is on the other end.



              Because to me, he seems like a pretty competent dude for the two part interview Altitude did with him.

        • Cullen

          I was going to type up a really long response for you Nugman… but I’ve done this all before. I’m super glad you don’t run the team because we’d never make a championship or progress a franchise. One season RIDDLED with injuries a fair coaching evaluation does not make.

          Sure, Shaw had a lot of questionable coaching decisions, but he’s a first time head coach with a roster that does not fit much of what he wants to do, but he did adjust.

          Shaw did not have a superior or outstanding first year of coaching, but calling for his head or criticism after ONE season where Gallo missed every game, Lawson missed a ton of time, Chandler missed quite a stretch, Faried missed some games. Hickson and McGee missed substantial minutes.

          Tell me a coach or coaching decisions you would have made that would have maximized the roster that was presented to Shaw to make it better? Name a coach that would have done better?

          Seems pretty shallow to just call for his head without an argument of what would have been better.

          I saw almost universally that any coach should get 3-5 seasons minus very specific and embarrassing situations/performances that do not match up with the roster they are presented. If we get into the business of tossing coaches after a season we will end up a top 5 lottery lock every season while never getting better. Look at the Bucks, Cavs, etc. Just some food for thought…

          • Nugman

            See below. Pop, Doc, Phil and just about every other NBA Hc

            • Cullen

              Such a riveting explanation of why and how. This is what I’ve come to expect from people who hate Shaw. Nothing.

            • Dubs

              Well Pop has been employed by the same team for 18 years. Doc is well established in LAC and Phil is president of the NYK. So I don’t think you can get those guys here.

              Like I said before, it’s too early to evaluate how good of a head coach he is without a body of work. Firing him after his first NBA season seems very rash. Lets wait until another couple years down the road before we make a hasty decision here.

            • Cullen

              See, this is exactly what I’m talking about on the other post. You literally just threw out the name of big name coaches. Zero explanation as to how or why… Or even explaining or Karl or any coach WE COULD HAVE ACTUALLY GOTTEN would have done better. This is what frustrates me.

  • Richard Pesicka

    NObody, and I mean NObody is going to take an over rated over paid player like mcgee. Not going to happen. Now if you pay half his salary and dump him, that’s a different story.

    • Cullen

      At this point, no. With some play this year showing some health on that knee and he will be moved. He has two years left and there are specific needs/questionable organizations that will gamble.

      I’m willing to bet he’ll be gone by the deadline.

  • john in denver

    Is it true that if the Nuggets land Kevin Love for McGee and Chandler, they will offer Melo $100 mil and the rights to Lookout Mountain to resign with us?

  • etlord1

    It sounds like Nurkic is going to play for Denver this fall. It would be nice to see him make his summer league debut next week. It would be interesting to watch. Playing for Bosnia on the U20 team is probably the more commendable thing for him to do though.

  • heykyleinsf

    Does anyone have a link to our summer league roster?
    Can’t find one online

  • MTIG

    Mid level teams have to roll the dice. Interesting trade would be McGee and Chandler for Roy Hibbert. Hibbert and McGee are both a gamble that need a change of scenery.
    Indiana picks up a valuable piece. Chandler could play in Stephens or Turners spot and both are wildcards at this point.

    I believe Hibbert could be the rim protector Shaw needs. Hibbert runs 16m. The swap creates a few extra million and we try to pick up Mike Miller as the Gallo insurance and veteran leader.
    Pretty decent team starting Hibbert, Faried, Gallo /Miller), Lawson and Aafalo.
    Bring in Mosgov, Robinson, (Miller / Gallo), Foye … still have Hickson, Randolph, Harris and the young Russian competing.
    Not a bad team for the young coach.

    • Anthony Santistevan

      Randolph was traded to Chicago along with Doug McDermott for
      Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris.

  • Nugman

    Do not question Shaws coaching ability on this blog or you will be crucified! See below